[Qgis-user] [QGIS-Developer] Announce - migrate our mailing lists to Discourse

Fri Apr 12 09:21:20 PDT 2024

I am excited about the move to discourse and the possibilities that it
opens up. I am concerned and sad to hear so many voices upset about the
move. I hope the transition goes well and we don't lose too many voices.
-Bas

On Thu, Apr 11, 2024 at 12:26 AM Adam Nielsen via QGIS-User <
qgis-user at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:

> > I didn't see it coming honestly.  Make it hard for them so only the
> > best ones can join us?
>
> Not quite - make asking questions take more effort than doing your own
> research, so lazy people are encouraged to find their own answers
> before asking.  It's not about excluding people, it's about minimising
> the types of questions that could be solved by looking at the
> documentation or by doing a web search.
>
> > > In my own experience, if it's too easy for people to ask questions,
> > > then they tend to do so before doing their own research.
> >
> > Don't you think it is already the case. Moderators everywhere are
> > doing this job to remind people to just do their homework before
> > asking.
>
> Yes and this is my argument exactly.  Those places make it too easy for
> lazy people to ask questions, and so you end up with moderators
> spending large amounts of time reminding people of basic things.  In my
> opinion, instead of bringing in more moderators, it is better to reduce
> the amount of these low-effort questions.
>
> > Would you want to make life harder for those who still want to learn,
> > but just don't get the mailing list stuff?
>
> It is very easy to subscribe to a mailing list.  If you can't figure
> that out, I think you will have no hope understanding QGIS.  But it is
> not about making it hard or complicated, it is making it so that people
> are encouraged to do at least a little work on their own before asking
> questions.
>
> > From my experience, stupid questions are either not answered, or very
> > gently refocused on the good way of asking questions, which is also
> > something I like in our communities.
>
> That is true, but it seems this list does not get very many questions
> like that.  If we start to get a lot of them, the community's attitude
> could change.
>
> > > This is why generally speaking, it's often better to add some
> > > hurdles in before people can ask questions, such as figuring out
> > > how to subscribe to an e-mail list.
> >
> > This is a radical point of view. Another option is to make them pass
> > through helpers that reminds them to search before asking. Something
> > positive, like when you create an issue in gitlab and the UI gently
> > propose you existing similar questions when you start typing.
>
> That is fine too, as long as people cannot ignore it and just keep
> typing their simple question.
>
> Look at the Microsoft support forums for example.  They are next to
> useless, because it is so easy to post questions.  There are hundreds
> of questions asking the same thing, and almost as many "answers" by
> people who have no idea what they are talking about, but are trying to
> be helpful by suggesting something that worked for them once when they
> had a completely different problem.
>
> So although their forums are easily searchable, it is incredibly rare
> to get a usable answer from them because the posts are of such low
> quality and often outright wrong.
>
> Contrast that to StackExchange.  Yes, the Q&A format is limited,
> however by removing low-effort posts and incorrect answers, their
> content is consistently high quality and extremely useful.  Many times
> I have done a web search and found my answer on a StackExchange site.
>
> Perhaps these are two extremes and the best solution is somewhere in
> the middle, but hopefully it at least explains the reasons behind my
> arguments.
>
> > > If you still think Discourse is the way to go, I would suggest
> > > running it in parallel with the e-mail list for a few months, and
> > > compare how many questions get answered there vs here.
> >
> > We can't mirror with both sides being written. If we go this way, we
> > would all have to follow both channels.
>
> I think it would be a mistake to switch entirely in one go.  I am not
> saying we run both permanently, just temporarily, to give it a trial
> run and see how it goes.  This will give the list users time to try out
> Discourse and see how it goes.  Many of the list people will likely set
> up Discourse to work like a mailing list anyway, so they won't have to
> follow both channels - everything will come into the same inbox.
>
> If Discourse works, then as more and more questions are asked there,
> fewer questions will be asked on the lists, and perhaps at some point
> they can be turned off and nobody will even notice.
>
> I am reminded of the recent Reddit debacle, where management forced
> their changes onto their community of volunteers, and as a result, a
> large majority of them left the community entirely.  It does seem like
> there is a similar push here, to move everyone to Discourse whether we
> like it or not.
>
> And that is fine, I am not paying for the servers, but if having a
> helpful community is of value to the project, it is probably best to
> take things slowly and give people a chance to adjust, rather than to
> dictate what is happening.
>
> > Older ones will stay in mailing lists, Users will try Discourse,
> > community is split in half.
>
> Remember the community being split in half, is exactly the same as half
> the community leaving because they do not like the change.
>
> > I remind you that the issue is that we do not have any plan at osgeo
> > to provide a mailman 3 solution. And new users just don't use mailing
> > lists.
>
> That is fine, I have no problem with it.  I just think it would be wise
> to trial the new solution before forcing everyone onto it, and to keep
> the possibility open of revisiting Mailman 3 if it turns out that
> Discourse is not working.  If you trial Discourse and it ends up
> working out really well, well then there's no problem!
>
> > Clearly if Discourse doesn't make it for PSC and user lists, after
> > correct communication and after the transition period, we'll discuss
> > it again.
>
> By then you will probably have lost all the "old users" though, so it
> may be too late to reverse course.
>
> Cheers,
> Adam.
> _______________________________________________
> QGIS-User mailing list
> QGIS-User at lists.osgeo.org
> List info: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-user
>

-- 
___________________________
Sebastian "Bas* " Gutwein
*rhymes with Josh

Regenerative Design Group
1 Chevalier Ave
Greenfield, Ma 01301
Web: regenerativedesigngroup.com
(631) 241-1018

*Look close, think big, make change. *
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/qgis-user/attachments/20240412/47cb6f39/attachment.htm>