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<p>Darn ! I missed one of the postings about you setting the file in
read-only on the NAS. So this is an already known work-around.
Sorry about the noise. <br>
</p>
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<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Emne: </th>
<td>Re: [Qgis-user] [EXTERNAL] Re: Geopackage slow on NAS if
not read-only</td>
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<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Dato: </th>
<td>Thu, 16 Mar 2023 14:35:16 +0100</td>
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<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Fra: </th>
<td>Bo Victor Thomsen <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:bo.victor.thomsen@gmail.com"><bo.victor.thomsen@gmail.com></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th valign="BASELINE" nowrap="nowrap" align="RIGHT">Til: </th>
<td><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org">qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org</a></td>
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<p>When any user on your network access the geopackage layer and
(maybe unnecessarily) puts the layer in edit mode, there will be
created 2 extra files in the same directory as the gpkg file
resides in. And QGIS behaves different regarding <i>both</i>
read and write operations when these file are present. This is
probably the explanation of the longer reading times, even if
nobody actually is editing the layer. When the user stops the
editing mode for the layer, the 2 files disappear.</p>
<p>You can check if this is the explanation:</p>
<ol>
<li>Open the gpkg layer in read mode on one computer, check the
access speed of the same layer on <i>another</i> computer. <br>
</li>
<li>Set the layer in edit mode on the first computer, check the
access speed to the layer on the second computer</li>
<li>Revert the edit mode on the first computer, check the access
speed to the layer on the second computer.</li>
</ol>
I am guessing, that situations 1 and 3 are fast, while situation 2
is slow. <br>
<p>First of all: Never, ever try to implement some kind of
multi-user editing on a file based format, where the file
resides on a networked drive. It will never, ever work reliably.
At some point 2 users will try to edit the same layer at the
same time and it will go kaboom (I can read from your mails that
you are aware about this). This goes for - probably - every file
based format on a network drive. <br>
</p>
<p>Secondly: What about making the gpkg file read-only at the
network share level for most of the users. And only granting
write access to the gpkg file for certain users that are
instructed in <i>not</i> setting the layer in edit mode unless
it's strictly necessary ? <br>
</p>
<p>The best solution: Install Postgres/PostGIS on your NAS <br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Med venlig hilsen / Best regards
Bo Victor Thomsen</pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Den 16-03-2023 kl. 13:49 skrev Árni
Geirsson via QGIS-User:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CALtMHXgi=7_eq=6SjCvSraOdhhLB+dKfFS6nkge6wFFOaFL=-Q@mail.gmail.com">
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html;
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<div dir="ltr">Thank you for the various responses.
<div>Let me be clear that what I am griping about is not the
locking aspect that would allow multiple users to edit
without conflict. I fully understand that the geopackage is
not safe for that, nor is the shapefile and perhaps also the
file geodatabase. In my case, the likelihood of two people
wanting to edit the same geopackage is negligible, so I take
my chances. My only gripe is the rendering speed of larger
geopackages on a shared network, if they are not set
specifically to read-only. That is not a problem with the
shapefile and I think probably not with a file geodatabase.
I am a long time user of geopackages in a networked
environment and I will continue to use them - they are great
- there is just this problem of rendering speed over a
network.<br clear="all">
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<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 at
12:33, Sebastian Gutwein <<a
href="mailto:bas@rdgland.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">bas@rdgland.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">This is all beyond my expertise but I have
also struggled with the effective use of gpkg’s. In my
case over google drive. </div>
<div dir="auto">Here is what SQLite (the underlying software
for gpkgs) says about using a SQLite database on a
network:
<div><a href="https://www.sqlite.org/useovernet.html"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://www.sqlite.org/useovernet.html</a></div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">I hope that someday someone implements a
system that allows this to work efficiently as gpkgs are
better in many respects than shapefiles. Perhaps Geodiff
could be part of that solution.
<div><a href="https://github.com/MerginMaps/geodiff"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://github.com/MerginMaps/geodiff</a></div>
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<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, Mar 16, 2023
at 8:04 AM Árni Geirsson via QGIS-User <<a
href="mailto:qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px
0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Jorge
<div>I understand what you are pointing at and I use
databases such as Postgres/PostGIS also with good
results. The thing is that working with data in
files sometimes has advantages and that is
certainly how shapefiles have been used. The
geopackage has been suggested as a replacement for
the shapefile in the context of regular QGIS
usage without any caveat saying that geopackages
only replace the storage and transfer role of
shapefiles and that geopackages should not be used
for editing in a shared environment, as is
perfectly possible with shapefiles and widely
practiced. Not all users have access to
database systems such as Postgres. I'm just
looking for some clarity on best practices for the
common scenario of working with QGIS using file
based data in a network environment.<br
clear="all">
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 16 Mar
2023 at 11:47, Jorge Gustavo Rocha via QGIS-User
<<a href="mailto:qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<p>Hi,</p>
<p>For data storage and manipulation databases
are suitable. Files are not. <br>
</p>
<p>Geopackages are wonderful to transfer data
between systems or to archive an entire
project (snapshot of data, styles and the
project itself).</p>
<p>Regards,</p>
<p>Jorge<br>
</p>
<div>On 16/03/23 11:30, Árni Geirsson via
QGIS-User wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Thank you Jarosław. Isn't it
strange that this was discussed 5 years ago
and SMB file sharing is very common? Would a
linux based NAS be able to use another
protocol? What are my options for file based
data sharing in QGIS? Abandoning geopackages
is not a realistic option for me, but I
could get a different kind of NAS unit, if
that helps, what kind then? What amazes me
is how little I see this discussed. There
was a message in this thread this morning
from Thomas Struller, but I am not sure it
is about the same root problem, maybe Thomas
can elaborate.
<div>Should this perhaps be discussed in
another forum, closer to the development
of geopackage/sqlite?<br clear="all">
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<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Thu, 16
Mar 2023 at 09:52, Sadowski Jarosław <<a
href="mailto:jaroslaw.sadowski@cpk.pl"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jaroslaw.sadowski@cpk.pl</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div lang="PL">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">Long story short:
gpkg is bad idea for network
drives as SMB/NAS etc</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">Sources:<br>
</span><a
href="https://www.sqlite.org/wal.html#advantages"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
lang="EN-US">Write-Ahead
Logging (sqlite.org)</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a
href="https://github.com/r-spatial/sf/issues/628"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
lang="EN-US">writing gpkg and
sqlite on samba shares fails ·
Issue #628 · r-spatial/sf ·
GitHub</span></a></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
lang="EN-US"> QGIS-User <<a
href="mailto:qgis-user-bounces@lists.osgeo.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">qgis-user-bounces@lists.osgeo.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Árni
Geirsson via QGIS-User<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March
16, 2023 10:18 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
href="mailto:jhubbslist@att.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">jhubbslist@att.net</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
href="mailto:qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL]
Re: [Qgis-user] Geopackage
slow on NAS if not read-only</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div style="border:1pt solid
rgb(156,101,0);padding:2pt"
id="m_-3721556285310908744m_-91705260448882375m_5292080438416008098m_-2869550827560755875m_448025373283784848m_-6768445286251198089footer">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background-color:rgb(255,235,156)"><span
style="color:black">UWAGA: Ta
wiadomość pochodzi spoza CPK
Sp. z o.o. Proszę pomóż zadbać
o bezpieczeństwo naszej
organizacji. </span><span
style="color:black"
lang="EN-US">Zastanów się,
zanim otworzysz link lub
załącznik.</span><span
lang="EN-US"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">Yes, as far
as I know, the NAS unit uses
SMB as the file sharing
protocol. I used another NAS
from QNAP before this one,
also using SMB and with the
same problem. I thought
pretty much all of the Linux
based NAS units were using
SMB and if that is the
problem, it should be
widespread, but I don't see
any signs of that. Is SMB a
problem for geopackage? </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">I did a quick
test in QGIS: A dataset of
178.000 line features is
rendered in about 1 second
from a read only
geopackage. When I remove
the read only flag, it is
rendered in about 5
seconds.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">If I store
the geopackage on the
local hard drive, the
problem disappears,
read-write or read-only
does not matter.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">I have had
suspicions about SMB being
part of the problem but I
don't know enough about
file access deep down in
the operating system to
understand it.<br
clear="all">
</span></p>
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<p
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<p
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style="color:black" lang="EN-US">Árni Geirsson</span><span lang="EN-US"></span></p>
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lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">On Thu, 16
Mar 2023 at 01:45,
jhubbslist--- via
QGIS-User <</span><a
href="mailto:qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
lang="EN-US">qgis-user@lists.osgeo.org</span></a><span
lang="EN-US">> wrote:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">Árni -</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">Are you
using SMB/CIFS to
access this NAS, and
are you using wifi or
Ethernet to connect to
it?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">- Jeff </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">On
3/15/23 3:30 PM, Árni
Geirsson via QGIS-User
wrote:</span></p>
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<blockquote
style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">Hello
all QGIS and
geopackage users. </span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">I
store my
geopackages on a
Synology
RackStation NAS
unit, like all
other documents
that are kept on a
shared drive in
the office. For
larger datasets,
the rendering is
very slow, unless
I open the
properties dialog
for the file in
Windows and check
the read only box.
After that, the
features are
rendered blazingly
fast. Nothing else
is changed to see
the dramatic
difference in the
rendering speed.
Luckily, I don't
need to edit many
of the larger
datasets, such as
road networks and
elevation contours
and the geopackage
can be kept read
only. Shapefiles
are not affected.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">What
explains this and
does anyone know
how to solve
the problem? </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">Do
other users
experience this?</span></p>
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<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
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<p
class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US">Árni
Geirsson</span></p>
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</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
lang="EN-US"><br>
<br>
</span></p>
<pre style="font-family:monospace"><span style="font-family:monospace" lang="EN-US">_______________________________________________</span></pre>
<pre style="font-family:monospace"><span style="font-family:monospace" lang="EN-US">QGIS-User mailing list</span></pre>
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<pre cols="72" style="font-family:monospace">--
Jorge Gustavo Rocha
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"Take the open source journey with us"
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-- <br>
<div dir="ltr">Sent from a phone. Amazing! But possibly
garbled. Sebastian Gutwein Regenerative Design Group 1
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