[Ubuntu] Fwd: [Live-demo] Packaging and project re-organization

[Angelos Tzotsos]

Hi Andreas,

On 01/03/2014 12:26 AM, Andreas Tille wrote:
> Hi Angelos,
>
> On Fri, Jan 03, 2014 at 12:17:06AM +0200, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>> As per discussion on #osgeolive, we agreed to use the
>> DebianGIS->UbuntuGIS->OSGeoLive ppa approach here, hoping we can get
>> people to cooperate, instead of duplicating work.
> +1
>   
>>> According to my experience those simple ways will create more work
>>> afterwards as if done right in the first place.  "Everything should be
>>> made as simple as possible, but not simpler. - A. Einstein"
>> Well, according to our experience in the OSGeoLive project, we would
>> not have 60+ projects included if we did not accept very simple ways
>> of installing  (in the form of shell scripts).
>> I agree that packaging is the *right* way of installing software on
>> GNU/Linux and I am happy to see that in our tonight's meeting we had
>> many packagers present, offering to help. This is very good news...
> As I wrote in my previous mail creating packages needs time but we
> should target at the goal to replace the script installed projects step
> by step by debs.
+1
>
>>>> Until now we
>>>> have installation shell scripts for all the projects which is simple
>>>> and easy to follow. Unfortunately deb packaging is not that
>>>> simple...
>>> I'd call this a wrong statement.  Have you any evidence for this?  I
>>> think even writing down sentences like this is wrong since it might keep
>>> people away from even trying.
>> We agree to disagree here.
> :-)
>
>> 50% of projects included in OSGeoLive was
>> not able to provide deb files in the past, while all have provided
>> shell installers. It is just not as simple with packaging rules,
>> lintian etc.
>> I also don't believe that stating that will drive people away, if
>> they really want to learn they will stick to trying.
> OK. We will never have any proof for either statement and so there
> is no need to debate this.
+1
>
>> People will be
>> more disappointed if you claim packaging is very simple and it takes
>> them days to figure out how it works...
> Well, it takes actually weeks and so my effort is called "Mentoring of the
> *Month*":
>
>     https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMed/MoM
>
> If you try to start from scratch without help it might be hard but all
> MoM students agreed that it is not that hard when getting help on a
> practical example.

This is a great effort. I wish I had this help when I started packaging 
some years back :)

>
>> When we started this discussion on the OSGeoLive meetings, many
>> thought that packaging is going to complicate things and I was asked
>> to provide a solution as simple as shell installers, thus FPM was
>> proposed as an easy and practical solution.
> As I said:  I do not know FPM and I can asure you I do not want to know
> it - so I can not decide whether it is easy and practical.

Let's stay to our current plan and see IF we will need it in the future.

>   
>>>>> [2] https://wiki.debian.org/DebianPureBlends/SoB
>>>>>
>>>> This proposal could just become obsolete if we manage to find
>>>> volunteers to do all the Debian packaging for 30+ projects the
>>>> proper way. That would be awesome.
>>> I'd volunteer to teach those people who fired up fpm to create a package
>>> to continue from this to a real package.  Just redirect them to me and
>>> I'll do the packaging in some kind of "Mentoring of Month"[1] like
>>> effort.
>> Thank you for your offer. This mentoring will be very helpful in
>> this packaging effort.
> Kind regards
>
>        Andreas.
>

Best,
Angelos

-- 
Angelos Tzotsos
Remote Sensing Laboratory
National Technical University of Athens
http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos