[Qgis-community-team] Fw: Att Werner Macho - suggested AU/EU language translation.

Wed Apr 10 14:36:57 PDT 2024

Thanks for the interest in this team,

Yes I think lodging as a GitHub issue is a great first step to garner interest. And I agree it is tricky applying the en-dash because it's not readily available on most keyboards. Usually if you type a number range in Microsoft Word it will revert the hyphen to an en-dash automatically.

I am concious that like with any change, some users won't appreciate a forced-default change. So I think the ideal solution is have an optional "Range separator" field in the style properties window for the layer, so the user can quickly change it if they need (maybe having a drop-down menu with suggested defaults).

Reason I say this is I know some of our non-technical clients might appreciate ranges listed as "-X to X" rather than "-X - X" or "-X – X" etc.

So maybe as a start the three core-default options could be:
hyphen (-)
en-dash (–)
text (to) this text would hopefully auto-change to the user's language equivelant based on their QGIS profile settings i.e. "zu" (German?)

I am aware we can modify all of these by customising the legend, but it is more time-consuming. And if we apply old pre-saved styles, they are hard to update the values while maintaining the symbol i.e. if the legend label was pre-saved with an en-dash (–), it automatically defaults back to a hyphen as soon as we change the class value ranges.

Again, thanks for your interest, I'll post on GitHub and link the team up with with the issue once lodged, cheers/prost.

Kind regards,

Dylan Chenoweth

Surface Water Science and Engineering

BSc Env (Hons.) | Flinders University

📧  dylanchenoweth at outlook.com<mailto:dylanchenoweth at outlook.com>

💻 linkedin.com/in/dylansc<http://linkedin.com/in/dylansc>

________________________________
From: Qgis-community-team <qgis-community-team-bounces at lists.osgeo.org> on behalf of Werner Macho via Qgis-community-team <qgis-community-team at lists.osgeo.org>
Sent: Wednesday, 10 April 2024 6:42 PM
To: Alexei Schwab <alexei at fastmail.net>
Cc: qgis-community-team at lists.osgeo.org <qgis-community-team at lists.osgeo.org>
Subject: Re: [Qgis-community-team] Fw: Att Werner Macho - suggested AU/EU language translation.

Hi Dylan, community-team,

Honestly I have not been aware of this until now.
Maybe it is also just a "translation problem" so that translating users may also not see a difference between dash and hyphen.
I am not (yet) aware of differences in usage of dash or hyphen between languages but to be honest - on my (german) keyboard I can only find "-" and "_" easily.
Maybe it is really a "language" problem?
Writing an issue about that (as Alexei suggested) might rise some more attention in different languages - maybe we find a "correct" way to solve that in an issue?

thanks for your message and hint about it

regards
Werner

On Wed, Apr 10, 2024 at 10:31 AM Alexei Schwab via Qgis-community-team <qgis-community-team at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:qgis-community-team at lists.osgeo.org>> wrote:
Fully agree on this proposal for better typography in the legend generator.

Dylan, have you added it as an issue on the QGIS github repo?

https://github.com/qgis/QGIS/issues

Regards,

Alexei

On Wed, 10 Apr 2024, at 00:33, Dylan Chenoweth via Qgis-community-team wrote:
I should also add: before doing this I looked everywhere in the available customisation sections within QGIS Desktop and could not find anywhere this variable/default could be changed.
Ideally, it would be great if users could simply have a field legend window where we could select or change the preferred default number separator - this way everyone can be happy and there'd be no need to dig through or hack code.

Kind regards,

Dylan Chenoweth

Surface Water Science and Engineering

BSc Env (Hons.) | Flinders University

📧  dylanchenoweth at outlook.com<mailto:dylanchenoweth at outlook.com>

💻 linkedin.com/in/dylansc<http://linkedin.com/in/dylansc>

________________________________

From: Dylan Chenoweth <dylanchenoweth at outlook.com<mailto:dylanchenoweth at outlook.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, 10 April 2024 9:01 AM
To: qgis-community-team at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:qgis-community-team at lists.osgeo.org> <qgis-community-team at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:qgis-community-team at lists.osgeo.org>>
Subject: Att Werner Macho - suggested AU/EU language translation.

Hello Werner,

I understand there is currently no Australian language conversion for QGIS. I've suggested this translation be added to through the Transifex QGIS Desktop page.

However, it may not be necessary to have a full translation for AU since we mostly adopt UK English anyway. But the reason I came across the translation option was born from a very simple requirement which I'll point out below...

In the legend/symbol ranges for classified symbols, the default range seperator is a hyphen (-) which is incorrect for describing ranges. Additionally, negative numbers are also listed using a hyphen (-).

The hyphen is very similar to the minus (−) sign (but not identical - it sits lower than a minus or en-dash). Number ranges should be separated by an en-dash (–). This helps visually identify the difference between numbers being negatives or math equations, vs ranges. The below summarises the differences:

‐    −    –    [hyphen, minus, en-dash]

                                       negative 100 to positive 100
QGIS current default range:               ‐100 ‐ 100
Range using just math symbol for minus:   −100 ‐ 100
Range using math minus and en-dash:     −100 – 100

Range using just en-dash separator        -100 – 100

Below is an example of the three differences in QGIS:

QGIS current default range: 
[cid:ii_18ec7261ef1cb971f161]    

Range using just math symbol for minus:
[cid:ii_18ec7261ef2cb971f162]

Range using math minus and en-dash:
[cid:ii_18ec7261ef2cb971f163]

I also acknowledge there is a need to keep legends visually easy to read, and adding the minus and en-dash results in longer-spanning number ranges than those that have positive values.
For this reason, I believe it may still be beneficial to retain the hyphen for negative numbers to keep the spanning label short a little more in-line with the positive values. However, I strongly believe the range seperator default should be replaced with an en-dash, to clearly show the difference between it being a range and a math operator. This example is shown below in full with positive values below for reference

[cid:ii_18ec7261ef2cb971f164]

I am keen to hear you and the team's thoughts - looking forward to your reply, thankyou.

This is further discussed on the Australian Government's website: Dashes | Style Manual<https://www.stylemanual.gov.au/grammar-punctuation-and-conventions/punctuation/dashes> -and is published as the correct use of the en-dash vs hyphen/minus in many other online sources.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Use the correct symbols for en dash and minus sign

En dashes are half the width of the font height. Use them as a type of punctuation.

Don’t use an en dash instead of a minus sign. Screen readers will read dashes as dashes, not as the minus sign.

In Unicode, the en dash is U+2013.

To make sure screen readers read the minus sign, use the mathematical symbol for minus. In Unicode, this is U+2212.

Don’t confuse the dash or the minus symbol for a hyphen<https://www.stylemanual.gov.au/node/105>.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Kind regards,

Dylan Chenoweth

Environmental Scientist (water)

BSc Env (Hons.) | Flinders University

📧  dylanchenoweth at outlook.com<mailto:dylanchenoweth at outlook.com>

💻 [linkedin.com/in/dylansc]linkedin.com/in/dylansc<http://linkedin.com/in/dylansc%5Dlinkedin.com/in/dylansc>

📱 0402 626 632

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