[FW: [Aust-NZ] Time to move - Incorporation of OSGeo-AustNZ
[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]]
Cameron Shorter
cameron.shorter at gmail.com
Thu Oct 16 15:50:47 EDT 2008
Bruce, thanks for pushing this forward, and Brent, thanks for suggesting
an alternative model.
I'm partial to a cheaper solution as it is much easier to sustain.
Bruce, would I be right in guessing that you would welcome someone (like
Brent) offering to take the banner getting Aust-NZ incorporated?
Bruce Bannerman wrote:
> We have had some legal advice on the structure for OSGeo-AustNZ [1]. This was along the lines of establishing
> a WA association and then registering with ASIC for an ARBN to allow trading across Australia. We didn't resolve
> trading in NZ under this model.
>
> Following this advice, we agreed to incorporate in WA.
>
>
> On the 27th July, I took the baton on this issue [2].
>
> As it did not appear that we had anyone in WA who could pursue our preferred model,
> I adopted the model of incorporating as a Pty Ltd company (as a not-for-profit). I
> have some experience with this model, having successfully run a small consultancy
> for five years and have a basic understanding of requirements. This model also appears
> to cater for cross registration in NZ (Brent, could you clarify please?).
>
> This is the basis of the quotes that I obtained from an accountant / auditor that I
> have used for several years.
>
>
> I am running out of time to look after this, as I'll be going on two months leave shortly.
>
> If we are going to debate structure again, someone else is going to have to take up the
> baton on this, as I will not have the time to follow through, given past experience on how long
> this is likely to take.
>
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
> [1] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/aust-nz/2008-January/000285.html
>
> [2] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/aust-nz/2008-July/000612.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------- Forwarded Message --------
> From: Bruce Bannerman <B.Bannerman at bom.gov.au>
>
> Subject: FW: [Aust-NZ] Time to move - Incorporation of OSGeo-AustNZ [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
> Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2008 16:10:02 +1100
>
>
>
>
>> Subject: RE: [Aust-NZ] Time to move - Incorporation of
>> OSGeo-AustNZ[SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>>
>> Brent
>>
>> I am no legal eagle but I do (and have) belonged to a number
>> of associations.
>> One which definitely has o/s members is actually a registered company.
>> Another is registered in WA but has members from all Aust
>> states/territories, whilst another is registered in the ACT
>> but has NSW members. Yet another is registered in NSW but has
>> ACT members. These last three are associations and not companies.
>>
>> I think it largely comes down to what is written in the
>> constitution. Eg membership, membership classes or grades,
>> board and executive make-up, powers, etc.
>>
>> BTW, none of the groups mentioned above have gone down the
>> Registrable Australian Bodies path, so I suspect that we
>> would not need too.
>>
>> Unfortunately, I think we might have to get accountant or
>> legal advice to work out the 'proper' way forward. Does
>> anyone have a legal acquaintance or relative?
>>
>> But I must ask. Do we need to go down this path at all?
>>
>> I suspect that if we want to be a legal entity and have bank
>> accounts, etc.
>> then we will need to. Otherwise, I would say that we should
>> just be a part of the greater OSGeo community.
>>
>> Ian
>> -------------------------
>> Ian Batley
>> ian.batley at ga.gov.au
>> 02 6249 5825
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Brent Wood [mailto:pcreso at yahoo.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, 16 October 2008 1:58 PM
>> To: Batley Ian
>> Subject: RE: [Aust-NZ] Time to move - Incorporation of
>> OSGeo-AustNZ [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>>
>> As described below, I can see a few possible problems that we
>> really need tidied up before progressing this. I thought
>> getting this sorted out was what Tim originally had problems
>> with which made the whole process more complicated than otherwise.
>>
>> We need a body corporate which can accept at least members,
>> and ideally committee members, from countries and states
>> other than the one of registration.
>>
>> I'm not sure about NZ, nor about Bruce's proposal or Ian's
>> ACT suggestions.
>>
>> I'll follow this up for NZ, but would like some clarification
>> on this aspect for the others if possible...
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Brent
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 10/16/08, Ian.Batley at ga.gov.au
>> <Ian.Batley at ga.gov.au> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> From: Ian.Batley at ga.gov.au <Ian.Batley at ga.gov.au>
>>> Subject: RE: [Aust-NZ] Time to move - Incorporation of OSGeo-AustNZ
>>>
>> [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]
>>
>>> To: Aust-NZ at lists.osgeo.org
>>> Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 11:54 AM If registered in
>>>
>> the ACT it
>>
>>> is done under the Associations Incorporations Act and all
>>>
>> the details
>>
>>> can be found at
>>>
>> http://www.ors.act.gov.au/licensing/Assocns/assn1.html
>>
>>> Cost is $138 for the application. It is not an onerous task and it
>>> does not require a physical address, just postal. However, it does
>>> require yearly lodgement of some things (cost $32), a
>>>
>> membership of at
>>
>>> least 5 people, and a constitution.
>>>
>>>
>> A physical address of the first public officer is required
>> (not a big deal)
>>
>> Is an NZ address considered "deliverable by Australian Post?"
>> My impression is probably not, in which case no-one in NZ can
>> be on the inaugural committee of such an organisation, I'm
>> not sure about after the inaugural one, but again, my guess is not.
>>
>> This issue is likely whichever country we register in. I'm
>> guessing again, but I figure the only persons able to be in a
>> recognised position of authority (committee/director) in such
>> an incorporated body will be persons who can be held
>> accountable under the registering authority.
>>
>> I'm intrigued that the ACT form requires an Australian postal
>> address for all inaugural committee members, but does not
>> specify this for future committee members (in the
>> notification of change of committee form).
>>
>>
>>
>>> Once incorporated we may need to investigate Aust wide
>>>
>> registration,
>>
>>> but I am not sure on this, see
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf/byheadline/Registrable+Au
>> stralian+Bodies
>>
>> I don't fully understand this, but it seems up front that
>> while this allows the body corporate to operate throughout
>> Australia, I can't tell if it allows the governing committee
>> to have members outside of the home state?
>>
>>
>>
>>> ?opendocument
>>>
>>> Cost for this registration is $330 if we have to do it.
>>>
>>> -------------------------
>>> Ian Batley
>>> ian.batley at ga.gov.au
>>> 02 6249 5825
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: aust-nz-bounces at lists.osgeo.org
>>> [mailto:aust-nz-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Brent Wood
>>> Sent: Thursday, 16 October 2008 6:46 AM
>>> To: Aust-NZ at lists.osgeo.org
>>> Subject: Re: [Aust-NZ] Time to move - Incorporation of OSGeo-AustNZ
>>>
>>> Eek...
>>>
>>> That seems expensive, unless I'm missing something (which given my
>>> expertise in this area, is quite possible :-)
>>>
>>> Does it matter whether the chapter is registered in
>>>
>> Australia or NZ?
>>
>>> If is is in Australia then it problably means less work for
>>>
>> me :-) but
>>
>>> I'm not really concerned either way.
>>>
>>> To register as a not-for-profit incorporated society in NZ
>>>
>> is NZ$100
>>
>>> which I'm happy to fork out for, or could come out od initial
>>> membership fees?
>>>
>>> If we can find a friendly accountant, annual auditing is free or
>>> pretty cheap. The running costs will be postage (mostly
>>>
>> email anyway
>>
>>> I'd hope) & a bank account, which I guess could well be
>>>
>> Australian if
>>
>>> required, like if we had an Australian treasurer.
>>>
>>> & I figure accounts in both NZ & Australia might be cheaper than
>>> regularly transferring $$ internationally anyway...
>>>
>>>
>>> Is it worth following up a NZ based registration if is cheaper &
>>> simpler?
>>>
>>> As far as I can tell, NZ residency is not required, unless
>>>
>> we require
>>
>>> it under our own rules/charter, and normally the only officers
>>> required are Chair/President, secretary & treasurer, but it does
>>> require 15 members.
>>>
>>> There are plenty of examples of charters available to model
>>>
>> ours on if
>>
>>> required.
>>>
>>> These links give a useful how-to, one from an NZ LUG...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.community.net.nz/How-ToGuides/LegalStructures/Publi
>>
> cationsResource
>
>>> s/incorpsoc.htm
>>> http://www.wlug.org.nz/NewZealandIncorporatedSocietyHowto
>>>
>>> The official site, is at:
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.societies.govt.nz/cms/incorporated-societies/incorp
>>
> orated-societie
>
>>> s-landing-page
>>>
>>> The application form is at:
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.societies.govt.nz/cms/pdf-library/incorporated-soci
>>
> eties-forms/for
>
>>> m-is1-application-to-incorporate-a-society-pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> The registered address may not even have to be in NZ, nor
>>>
>> the postal
>>
>>> address, but I (or someone else here from NZ I'm sure) can
>>>
>> provide NZ
>>
>>> ones if required. We may need to post an application form around 15
>>> people for signing, but given signatures are on three pages, that
>>> isn't too onerous.
>>>
>>> We can state that IRC meetings, given a quorum, are acceptable for
>>> society meetings, in our rules.
>>>
>>>
>>> If people are interested in this option, I guess we could start by
>>> drafting the charter/rules on the OSGEO wiki? Once that is
>>>
>> done & we
>>
>>> have the 15 signatures, we can apply, with a result in a few days.
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Brent
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Bruce Bannerman
>>> <bruce at bannerman.id.au> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Bruce Bannerman <bruce at bannerman.id.au>
>>>> Subject: [Aust-NZ] Time to move - Incorporation of
>>>>
>>> OSGeo-AustNZ
>>>
>>>> To: "Aust-NZ OSGeo"
>>>>
>>> <Aust-NZ at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>
>>>> Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 11:40 PM Getting
>>>>
>> insurance quotes
>>
>>>> is proving to be a very
>>>>
>>> difficult
>>>
>>>> process in
>>>> these troubled times.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I propose that we proceed with the incorporation of
>>>>
>> OSGeo-AustNZ as
>>
>>>> a not for profit organisation and revisit the costs for insurance
>>>> when these become available.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Costs will be:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Incorporation as a Not-for-profit $1300
>>>>
>>>> Annual audit fee approx $200
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It will take two to four weeks to incorporate.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Now, where do we find the funds?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bruce Bannerman
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Aust-NZ mailing list
>>>> Aust-NZ at lists.osgeo.org
>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/aust-nz
>>>>
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>>
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>>
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>>
--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Systems Architect
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
Think Globally, Fix Locally
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
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