[Board] Please review: Open Letter asking to avoid format fragmentation in LiDAR standards

Jeff McKenna jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com
Mon Apr 20 10:52:16 PDT 2015


Hi Cameron,

I personally feel topics like "the story" as you mention are for places 
like blogs, which I believe Martin documented very well already (I've 
retweeted his post months ago).  What I see here on this wiki page is 
the story re-written again.  I have a difficult time though officially 
supporting this story with my OSGeo Board hat on though, as it doesn't 
add anything more (throws salt on the wound, so to speak).

I would like to see the OSGeo Board in fact support a request for LiDAR 
standards, and leave out this unfortunate "story".

-jeff



On 2015-04-20 12:35 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
> Thanks for your feedback.
> We did address specific comments (similar to yours) during the request
> for comment phase, before we asked for signatures.
>
> 1. Now that we have asked for signatures (for the last week or so), it
> is inappropriate of us to change the text that people have signed up to.
>
> 2. I do acknowledge your concerns about directly singling out one
> vendor, and I initially tried writing the story without mentioning them.
> Unfortunately, this one vendor is so central to the format fragmentation
> story that it is difficult to tell the story and be specific about the
> request without mentioning them.
>
> 3. I'm also mindful that the story has already been breaking on some
> spatial media for a while now (one of the features of open
> communication), and mass media is likely to break the story soon - I'd
> estimate within 12 to 48 hours. In that timeframe, I personally don't
> have the time for a rewrite.
>
> So unfortunately, for these 3 reasons, I think it inappropriate to
> rewrite this Open Letter.
>
> Jeff, I think you have made your vote clear, but can you please
> officially vote +1, +0, 0, -0, -1 to these 2 proposals. Can the rest of
> the board please do so also as we need to decide whether the mass media
> report on this story with or without OSGeo board endorsement.
>
> Regards, Cameron
>
>
> On 21/04/2015 12:59 am, Jeff McKenna wrote:
>> Hi Cameron,
>>
>> In terms of my own feedback to your letter (I cannot speak for the
>> entire OSGeo Board), I would prefer to remove any reference to any
>> specific company or institution (such as Esri), and focus the goal of
>> the letter (as opposed to a flame war) on the needs for standards for
>> LiDAR data.  As this page is written now, it is not a surprise to me
>> that media outlets are drooling over this letter.  But what good can
>> come out of that, other than upsetting a large geospatial vendor in
>> our ecosystem?
>>
>> Personally, I have spoken to Martin about this face-to-face, and I was
>> at a presentation he did on this exact topic at FOSS4G-Asia in
>> December (I moderated his session, small world sometimes isn't it); it
>> is a frustrating situation that he was put through, and I support him
>> though this.
>>
>> But, since you are asking the OSGeo Board now, I cannot support such
>> an attack against one organization formally.
>>
>> Short story: can you reword your wiki/letter to focus on standards for
>> the LiDAR format, and not attack one organization?
>>
>>
>> -jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2015-04-20 11:28 AM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
>>> As Bart mentioned,
>>> * After initially being written, the letter was sent to OSGeo standards
>>> list, asking for review.
>>> * Suchith sent to OGC TC-Discuss list for review, and ESRI responded.
>>> * After ~ 1 week for review, the letter was forwarded to OSGeo discuss
>>> and a few others, asking for signatures (we have ~ 70 signatures,
>>> growing every day)
>>> * As per this email thread below, I've asked OSGeo board's approval to
>>> officially present this letter.
>>> * Today I've had inquiries from mass media. I've asked them to hold off
>>> on breaking the story until the board gives approval to officially
>>> present the letter, which will add extra weight to the letter. They
>>> didn't publish today, but may publish in 12 to 48 hours. (Media
>>> organisations have a strong desire to be the first to publish).
>>>
>>> So now the board has had time to consider, can you please all vote on
>>> following 2 proposals:
>>>
>>> I request the board support an OSGeo Community developed Open
>>>         Letter aimed at protecting open LiDAR standards.
>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/LIDAR_Format_Letter
>>>
>>>         Proposal 1: The OSGeo Board agree to include the following
>>>         statement (or similar wording) into the letter:
>>>
>>>         = Cover Letter from the OSGeo Board =
>>>
>>>         The board of the [http://osgeo.org <http://osgeo.org/> Open
>>>         Source Geospatial Foundation] (OSGeo) is presenting this
>>>         letter to the OGC, ESRI and ASPRS. The letter highlights
>>>         concerns about fragmentation in LiDAR standards from many
>>>         people within the OSGeo community. As always, if there is
>>>         anything the OSGeo board can do to help, then please let us
>>> know.
>>>
>>>         Signed: <OSGeo Board Members>
>>>
>>>         Proposal 2:
>>>         Once the letter has completed the signature phase, the letter
>>>         be emailed from the OSGeo President to key people within these
>>>         organisations:
>>>
>>>         Mark Reichardt <mreichardt AT opengeospatial.org
>>> <http://opengeospatial.org>
>>>         <http://opengeospatial.org>>, OSGeo President
>>>         David Danko <DDanko AT esri.com <http://esri.com>
>>> <http://esri.com>>, ESRI's
>>>         Senior Consultant for GIS Standards
>>>         Stephen D. DeGloria < sdd4 AT cornell.edu <http://cornell.edu>
>>>         <http://cornell.edu>>, President of the ASPRS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20/04/2015 10:50 pm, Bart van den Eijnden wrote:
>>>> Jeff,
>>>>
>>>> this was sent to discuss 1 week ago [1]. It has also been sent to the
>>>> OGC TC-Discuss list where Esri has even responded.
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2015-April/014137.html
>>>>
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Bart
>>>>
>>>>> On 20 Apr 2015, at 14:44, Jeff McKenna <jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com
>>>>> <mailto:jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> That would be good Maxi, as my concern is getting community feedback
>>>>> before the Board reviews such a request.
>>>>>
>>>>> Has this letter been sent yet to the general OSGeo community for
>>>>> review?  (the Discuss list) I think it is great that the Standards
>>>>> group reviewed it, maybe now it is ready for the general OSGeo
>>>>> community.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -jeff
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2015-04-20 6:18 AM, Massimiliano Cannata wrote:
>>>>>> Thare are interesting discussions running on the italian chapter
>>>>>> list.
>>>>>> It would be nice if someone could wrap-up a short summary of
>>>>>> interesting
>>>>>> points.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I could do it in the next days if none is available.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maxi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2015-04-20 10:30 GMT+02:00 Jachym Cepicky <jachym.cepicky at gmail.com
>>>>>> <mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com>
>>>>>> <mailto:jachym.cepicky at gmail.com>>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    I'm fine with that
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    pá 17. 4. 2015 v 8:56 odesílatel Bart van den Eijnden
>>>>>>    <bartvde at osgis.nl <mailto:bartvde at osgis.nl>
>>>>>> <mailto:bartvde at osgis.nl>> napsal:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Hello board,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        do people still need time to comment on the letter or can we
>>>>>>        call for a motion on this?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>        Best regards,
>>>>>>        Bart
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        On 16 Apr 2015, at 13:52, Cameron Shorter
>>>>>>>        <cameron.shorter at gmail.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>
>>>>>>>        wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        Hi OSGeo Board,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        I request the board support an OSGeo Community developed Open
>>>>>>>        Letter aimed at protecting open LiDAR standards.
>>>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/LIDAR_Format_Letter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        Proposal 1: The OSGeo Board agree to include the following
>>>>>>>        statement (or similar wording) into the letter:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        = Cover Letter from the OSGeo Board =
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        The board of the [http://osgeo.org <http://osgeo.org/> Open
>>>>>>>        Source Geospatial Foundation] (OSGeo) is presenting this
>>>>>>>        letter to the OGC, ESRI and ASPRS. The letter highlights
>>>>>>>        concerns about fragmentation in LiDAR standards from many
>>>>>>>        people within the OSGeo community. As always, if there is
>>>>>>>        anything the OSGeo board can do to help, then please let us
>>>>>>> know.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        Signed: <OSGeo Board Members>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        Proposal 2:
>>>>>>>        Once the letter has completed the signature phase, the letter
>>>>>>>        be emailed from the OSGeo President to key people within
>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>>        organisations:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        Mark Reichardt <mreichardt AT opengeospatial.org
>>>>>>> <http://opengeospatial.org>
>>>>>>>        <http://opengeospatial.org>>, OSGeo President
>>>>>>>        David Danko <DDanko AT esri.com <http://esri.com>
>>>>>>> <http://esri.com>>, ESRI's
>>>>>>>        Senior Consultant for GIS Standards
>>>>>>>        Stephen D. DeGloria < sdd4 AT cornell.edu
>>>>>>> <http://cornell.edu>
>>>>>>>        <http://cornell.edu>>, President of the ASPRS
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        On 11/04/2015 12:14 pm, Cameron Shorter wrote:
>>>>>>>>        Hi all,
>>>>>>>>        A number of us have been collaboratively developing an Open
>>>>>>>>        Letter asking key stakeholders to avoid fragmentation in
>>>>>>>>        LiDAR standards.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>        It starts:
>>>>>>>>        /We, the undersigned, are concerned that the current
>>>>>>>>        interoperability between LiDAR applications, through use of
>>>>>>>>        the open "LAS" format, is being threatened by ESRI's
>>>>>>>>        introduction and promotion of an alternative "Optimized LAS"
>>>>>>>>        proprietary format. This is of concern since the
>>>>>>>>        fragmentation of the LAS format will lead to reduced
>>>>>>>>        interoperability between applications and organisations, and
>>>>>>>>        introduce vendor lock-in./
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>        Could all interested please:
>>>>>>>>        1. Review and provide feedback to this standards email list
>>>>>>>>        2. If you agree with the letter, please add your name to the
>>>>>>>>        "Signed" section
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>        --
>>>>>>>>        Cameron Shorter,
>>>>>>>>        Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>>>>>>>        LISAsoft
>>>>>>>>        Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>>>>>>>        26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>        P +61 2 9009 5000, Wwww.lisasoft.com
>>>>>>>> <http://Wwww.lisasoft.com> <http://www.lisasoft.com/>,  F +61 2
>>>>>>>> 9009 5099



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