[Board] Travel expenses for FOSS4G Seoul

Mon Oct 19 07:36:21 PDT 2015

Dear All

I agree with Cameron and Maxi. There are advocates of OSGeo in many part of the world. We have to take advantage of these people. If you simply consider the people of the Board, they are from different part of the world. So, no reason to ask one person who lives far to travel a lot for a conference. And the people of the board are enough representative (they were voted by the Community).

Then, for every case, you can consider the best balance between cost/time etc. This is common in many organisation, not only in OSGeo ;-)

Moreover, expenses can be covered, if needed, but I am totally against paying people for going to a conference. Nobody, as far as I know, is paid for going to conferences. As Maxi says, going to a conference is no different with respect of preparing a questionnaire for geoforall on sunday afternoon (just to mention an example) and this is part of our voluntary activity.

Have a good week.

Maria

----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Vice Rector for Como Campus and GIS Professor
Politecnico di Milano

ISPRS WG IV/5 "Web and Cloud Based Geospatial Services and Applications"; OSGeo; ICA-OSGeo-ISPRS AB; NASA WorldWind Europa Challenge; SIFET
Sol Katz Award 2015

Via Natta, 12/14 - 22100 COMO (ITALY)
Tel. +39-031-3327336 - Mob. +39-328-0023867 - fax. +39-031-3327321
e-mail1: <mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it> maria.brovelli at polimi.it
e-mail2: prorettrice at como.polimi.it

________________________________
Da: Board <board-bounces at lists.osgeo.org> per conto di Massimiliano Cannata <massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch>
Inviato: lunedì 19 ottobre 2015 15.58
A: Helena Mitasova
Cc: OSGeo Board
Oggetto: Re: [Board] Travel expenses for FOSS4G Seoul

Dear All, dear Jeff,
first of all I have to say that I'm for covering costs of the president for FOSS4G-Seoul as it was agreed.

What I think is not correct is to pay "time" (maybe I misunderstood, then apologize me) and in principle to pay for any travel to the OSGeo main event (in the future).
Many people deserve many time to OSGeo, and I know the president is working very very hard on this (I credit it fr sure, this is not the point).

If OSGeo want to recognize people's time in monetary way, that it is not so president time is not so different from time of any one giving "his blood" to OSGeo...

A different story is if OSGeo decides to employ someone to conduct some work (dissemination, marketing etc..) and his time is payed and regulated by a contract with objectives, tasks and goals.

Maxi

2015-10-19 15:06 GMT+02:00 Helena Mitasova <hmitaso at ncsu.edu<mailto:hmitaso at ncsu.edu>>:
Maxi, Cameron,

I don’t quite  agree that the travel cost should not be covered - I think this should be evaluated case-by-case,
the preference is of course that whoever invites osgeo representative also covers his/her cost,
but that is not always possible.
Then at least for the OSGeo president the cost of travel should be covered by OSGeo
if deemed appropriate on case-by-case by the board (and this would include travel to FOSS4G).
Jeff is already putting in enormous amount of work for free and covering his travel expenses is the least
the OSGeo can do as organization for its president.

I cannot see how anybody could cover all of the necessary travel by the company/institution money even if you are
from a well funded organization and covering the travel expenses from your personal funds should be an exception
not the rule.

Helena

> On Oct 19, 2015, at 8:16 AM, Massimiliano Cannata <massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch<mailto:massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch>> wrote:
>
> Dear all
> Following the discussion suggested by Jeff:
>
> FOR THIS SPECIFIC CASE
>
> I think only live costs shall be reimbursed (based on bill tickets).
>
> Travelling ours is part of voluntary time to OSGeo, and it could be used also to work on other staff (for example I used my travel time to work on a publication).
>
> (I don't see it different from time used to participate in a meeting or writing this mail.)
>
> I believe that if we give a value to our spare time for OSGeo we are entering a very delicated debate.
>
>
>
> FOR THE FUTURE
>
> I strongly believe that OSGeo shall not pay any reimbursement to anyone to participate in FOSS4G.
>
> In the case shall be the LOC that invites and cover the costs of invited speeches and board members eventually. This could be included in the contract.
>
>
>
>
>
> This is more fair and transparent from my point of view.
>
>
>
> Maxi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Il 18/Ott/2015 20:46, "Jeff McKenna" <jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com<mailto:jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com>> ha scritto:
> Hi Mike /Treasurer,
>
> I've added my travel expense report
> for FOSS4G Seoul to the "OSGeo-finance" DropBox folder at /accounts_payable/travelexp/2015/foss4g_2015_seoul/jmckenna/, as well as the major receipts.  The total comes to
> $2,168.69 CAD.
>
> Let me know if you need anything else.  Thanks,
>
> Discussion
> ----------
>
> (below this message I have included a breakdown of expenses, for those not on DropBox)
>
> You'll notice that I have included 200 CAD for meals and travel
> incidentals.  I'd like to discuss this openly now, especially as next
> month I will travel to Moscow as president.  To be honest, this
> incidentals total feels very low, especially considering I spent time in
> 4 different airport, just for my trip there.  One could argue that cost
> would be just for my meals on the way to Seoul even, considering it took
> me almost 40 hours one way.  So, how do we handle this?
>
> I remember discussing this topic with Cameron years ago publicly, and it
> was agreed that OSGeo advocates who are invited to speak be covered for
> expenses per http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/OSGeo_Advocate#Expenses  That
> does mention meals, and points to the US State Department guidelines
> (here are the rates for Seoul
> https://aoprals.state.gov/web920/per_diem_action.asp?MenuHide=1&CountryCode=1129).
>
> If I were to follow those guidelines, my costs for meals & incidentals
> would be close to 1350 USD / 1700 CAD, which, does seem extreme for
> OSGeo.  However 200 CAD seems not realistic either.
>
> You know me, I always make sure to keep costs very low, to respect the
> foundation.  I stayed in an apartment with 5 others in Seoul, instead of
> billing the foundation for possibly thousands.  But in this case, for
> Seoul, there were incidentals and I somehow feel guilty even for
> reporting 200 CAD, but I know I shouldn't feel guilty.
>
> So, I'm just looking for your own opinion on this.  I am also fine for
> bringing this publicly as well (insert: I sent this at first to treasurer@ and was asked to take this publicly).  I'm not looking to
> "pull a fast one" on the foundation, but my gut instinct sees that
> incidentals total and it just feels wrong.
>
> Thanks for listening to this long email :)
>
> Talk soon,
>
> -jeff
>
> ****
>
> OSGeo Travel Expense Claim
> ==========================
>
> Name: Jeff McKenna
>
> Travel Dates: 09/12/2015 to 09/21/2015
>
> Itinerary: from Halifax Canada to Seoul, South Korea
>
> Reasons for travel: Represent OSGeo as president, at FOSS4G 2015
>
> Expenses
> --------
>
> Flight to Seoul: 1435 CAD
> 7 nights stay in Airbnb apartment (with 5 others): 330 CAD
> Bus to and from Incheon airport in Seoul: 36 CAD
> Park-n-fly at Halifax airport: 84 CAD
> Gasoline to Halifax airport & return: 50 CAD
> Travel medical insurance: 32 CAD
> Misc (food during travel and other incidentals): 200 CAD
>
> Total claimed: 2168 CAD
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Helena Mitasova
Professor at the Department of Marine,
Earth, and Atmospheric Sciences
and Center for Geospatial Analytics
North Carolina State University
Raleigh, NC 27695-8208
hmitaso at ncsu.edu<mailto:hmitaso at ncsu.edu>
http://geospatial.ncsu.edu/osgeorel/publications.html

"All electronic mail messages in connection with State business which are sent to or received by this account are subject to the NC Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties.”

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--
Massimiliano Cannata

Professore SUPSI in ingegneria Geomatica

Responsabile settore Geomatica

Istituto scienze della Terra

Dipartimento ambiente costruzione e design

Scuola universitaria professionale della Svizzera italiana

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