[OSGeo-Conf] The Funding Problem

[Eric Wolf]

Paul,

I'll throw my two pesos in here:

Part of the challenge OSGeo is managing is FOSS4G has gotten rather
large. As I look at the 2010 RFP, it looks to me like it could easily
be a $1M US affair involving over a thousand attendees.

At that scale, pizza and soda is almost as expensive to provide as
fancy dinners. The problem has to do with the man-power to manage that
number of people. It would be interesting to get the input of someone
who plans conferences professionally, but I'd bet they'll say there is
a cut-off, probably around 250 attendees, where the size of the
conference suddenly justifies a different approach than a bunch of
folding tables with extension cords and the pizza guy showing up at
noon (followed by a stroll to the pub down the street after the code
is put to rest).

There's also an interesting phenomenon occuring in the "Geospatial
space". Right now there are three distinct groups kind of fighting it
out: academic/research Geographers (the paleotards, as some have
termed them), the Neogeographers (neotards) including both
user-contributors and OS developers, and the VC-funded startups and
traditional commercial sector (ESRI). A large FOSS4G provides a venue
to bring these three groups together in a way that the ESRI UC or the
AAG Convention or O'Reilly's Where 2.0 cannot. FOSS4G also attracts a
certain kind of user or developer - usually sophisticated enough to
know the difference between a "paleotard" and a "neotard" as well as
having an idea of the strengths and weaknesses of both ESRI's products
and FOSS.

Unfortunately, these people are pretty widespread and more likely to
be outside the USA. That's a good thing - because Geography is what
this is all about. But that also means the conference needs to move
around.

I believe OSGeo provides some structure for local and regional
organizations and there's nothing that says a regional organization
can't setup a smaller conference. But it's important to have a big
conference and that conference has to move around. And what we are
doing is changing too quickly for the big conference to occur less
than every year.

I do hope the folks preparing a bid for FOSS4G 2010 are listening to
this conversation. Because it's also important to make the conference
as accommodating as possible to all groups. The great thing about
FOSS, in general, is that it takes so little capital to contribute.
And I have to agree that it would be nice if contributors with little
capital could also participate.

-Eric Wolf

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 9:13 AM, Paul Ramsey <pramsey at cleverelephant.ca> wrote:
> If the way I am communicating is stressful to you, I think it would be
> better than I shut up, than you leave.  Perhaps someone else would go
> back to the root e-mail and re-engage?
>
> http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/conference_dev/2008-October/000707.html
>
> P.
>
> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 5:22 AM, Markus Neteler <neteler at osgeo.org> wrote:
>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 2:33 AM, Paul Ramsey <pramsey at cleverelephant.ca> wrote:
>>>>> No, what is "the funding problem" and what would a solution look like?
>>
>> Many people cannot invest 1-2k USD for such a conference, all inclusive.
>>
>> ...
>>> If people start popping up and offering to organize and host a North
>>> American or European "technical get together" I don't think anyone
>>> will seriously tell them "no". About the only pointed comment I can
>>> imagine would be "hold it in the spring so it's not directly next to
>>> FOSS4G".
>>>
>>> But people aren't offering to put these things on, that I have seen?
>>
>> Sure:
>> - FOSSGIS in Germany
>> - GFOSS in Italy
>> - ...
>>
>> Only, they are (not yet) declared as OSGeo conferences.
>> Hundreds of participants are there.
>>
>>> I'm more concerned that, globally, we'll run out of FOSS4G hosters in
>>> the next couple rounds.
>>
>> The reason might be that there is the wish of ever growth which
>> will be hard to handle for a couple of potential hosters.
>> Eg. 500 people is already a large amount of people to deal with.
>>
>>> Anyways, this is the origin of my (received-as-hostile) comment to
>>
>> .. the sounds make the music...
>>
>>> Markus that, if he is not seeing what he wants in the current set of
>>> conferences, to step up and put on one he wants to see. I wanted to
>>> see FOSS4G put on in a particular way, because I thought doing so
>>> would establish a model that others would then want to follow, so I
>>> got it and put it on. Just like in the software, the idea is "show me,
>>> don't tell me".
>>
>> Well, Paul. I think that's not the point here. But I give up.
>>
>>> A cheap, regional, technically oriented conference can be put on right
>>> now, and we don't need to muck w/ FOSS4G to do it. Pick some dates in
>>> the spring, and put it on.
>>
>> As mentioned it already, in Germany and Italy we are doing it for YEARS.
>> Yes, for 10 years. Yes, with sponsors, booth and everything.
>> Only the OSGeo disclaimer isn't there. Maybe you just look up our
>> web sites to discover...
>>
>> If you suggest to declare these conference series as official
>> OSGeo regional conference, I can follow up with the organizers and
>> OSGeo to change the conference title.
>>
>> Next conference, as candidate: 25 - 27 feb 2009
>> "X Meeting degli utenti italiani GRASS e GFOSS"
>> http://gfoss2009.crs4.it/
>>
>>> It won't interfere unduly with FOSS4G and
>>> if that kind of thing is roaringly successful we might find ourselves
>>> stopping the FOSS4G train because the other conferences are so darn
>>> good. Show us.
>>
>> I think I don't want to answer to this sort of comment. I just feel that
>> you quite exaggerate. I brought up a *personal* opinion and did
>> not say that "your" conference was crap (haven't been there) nor
>> that FOSS4G2008 was bad - it was good! But things evolve and
>> so we should do... I try to extrapolate to 2010+ (see my first posting).
>> I guess we should learn from the past.
>>
>> Note that both GFOSS and FOSSGIS conferences take place many
>> months before the OSGeo main conference, so not much conflict there.
>>
>> Paul, perhaps I should just unsubscribe here. I don't need this sort of
>> discussion *style*. I tried to be as "neutral" as possible, apparently I failed.
>> Have a cooler day,
>>
>> Markus
>>
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-- 
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Eric B. Wolf                          720-209-6818
USGS Geographer
Center of Excellence in GIScience
PhD Student
CU-Boulder - Geography