[OSGeo-Conf] Question: share attendee list ?

[Eli Adam]

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Michael Terner <mgt at appgeo.com> wrote:
> Eli:
> Thanks for you note, you always cut to the bottom line and indeed, you
> highlight that each successive LOC needs to address some of the same
> challenges of the previous LOC's.
>
> YES, it would be hugely helpful if we, and successive FOSS4G's could
> instantiate that this is indeed one OSGeo event, that is managed by
> different organizing committees, and thus stuff like both the "outreach
> list" (which is openly shared, and we received from Bonn very promptly) and
> the "registration list" (which is what Bonn is most concerned about) can

This distinction was less clear to me from the initial email and makes
the issue less important.

Maybe the Bonn LOC can compare the lists and tell you that you are
only missing out on 200 (?) emails in which case, maybe it doesn't
matter.  I suspect that of the ~1,000 attendees ~500 had attended
before or were otherwise on the outreach list so maybe it it is 500
(not 200) missed emails.  Well, this is just random guessing.


> move from event to event under the auspices of OSGeo. And obviously, we are
> trying to respect Bonn's wishes, and what might be a matter of EU country
> law (i.e., based on Maria's last comment).
>
> As for your catch of our use of Mailman, let us be clear we are using
> MailChimp for our outbound communication. Our use of the Mailman lists
> pre-dates our acquisition of a BLOC MailChimp account and our obtaining the
> "historic list." We have been collecting "announce list" and "discussion
> list" emails since before Bonn and since our web-site went live. It's a
> decent enough, and minimalist way of signing up for the mailing list (and
> avoided our need to re-do the form in MailChimp). That said, we scrape these
> lists nightly and harvest data into Mailchimp. It is our full desire and

Ah, okay.  There was also a signup link in the first email if you view
it on the web.

> intent to pass on our MailChimp data, and if appropriate, our account to the
> Dar Es Salaam team after FOSS4G 2017. We are keenly aware of all the handoff
> issues and stand ready to be a use case for continuing to improve that

Great!

> process. And for the record, the Bonn Team has been absolutely fabulous
> about engaging with us and being prompt on question we've asked or for
> handing over resources. They have also been plain and candid about their
> concerns, including the differential norms of privacy/personal information
> in the USA and EU.

Yes, Bonn has done a great job all around.  This particular issue
perhaps could have used a little more foresight but already with the
clarification it is much better.

Best regards, Eli

>
> Thanks again for your guidance.
>
> MT
>
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 1:52 PM, Eli Adam <eadam at co.lincoln.or.us> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 6:14 AM, Michael Terner <mgt at appgeo.com> wrote:
>> > + Boston LOC list
>> >
>> > Till & Steven:
>> > Thanks for taking our request seriously. We understand, and absolutely
>> > respect the personal data and privacy issues associated with email and
>> > registration lists. And we will accept and appreciate whatever you feel
>> > you
>> > are able to do in this regard. We just wanted to update you and the list
>> > with several things we're planning and doing already and that pertain to
>> > this topic:
>> >
>> > We have secured a paid MailChimp account for FOSS4G 2017. We received
>> > access
>> > to the Bonn MailChimp account through the marketing team (Marc, Gert)
>> > and
>> > have successfully imported the several thousand email that were
>> > assembled
>> > through various opt-ins over the years.
>> > MailChimp has explicit rules about how to use their service, and they do
>> > not
>> > want to be known as a SPAM platform (they'd probably say a "keeping in
>> > touch
>> > platform"). These include providing a good, working unsubscribe on all
>> > correspondence and tracking the opt-outs. We will absolutely follow
>> > their
>> > rules.
>> > As of last night, we did our first outbound message to that list (with
>> > an
>> > unfortunate type-o in our attribution block that has now been corrected
>> > in
>> > our template [and that Venka alerted us to]). Among other things this is
>> > the
>> > first announcement that Richard Stallman is one of our keynotes; and
>> > this
>> > message includes the clear MailChimp unsubscribe.
>> > We have also assembled a supplementary list from a variety of sources -
>> > e.g., other conference and trade organization lists; Open Source project
>> > members; etc. - and we will be doing a single, outbound message to these
>> > people. Unlike the message in #3, this message to this list will include
>> > only a request for an explicit "opt-in" (e.g., click here to join our
>> > list)
>> > and those people who opt-in will be added to the master MailChimp list.
>> > Those who do not opt-in, will not hear from us again.
>> > We strongly support Till's proposed approach of having the Bonn Team
>> > send a
>> > "farewell notice" that includes the opportunity to "opt in" to the
>> > Boston
>> > mailing list. That sounds like a perfect solution and we'd be pleased to
>> > provide you the opt-in link (which is already on our web-site, and
>> > points to
>> > this location on the OSGeo web-site) or anything else you need from us.
>>
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/foss4g2017-announce
>>
>> Do you really want to run your promotions through mailman?  MailChimp
>> (or similar) seems like a better option.
>>
>> > Steven's suggestions for our own registration page make good sense,
>> > i.e.,
>> > let registrants "opt-in" to correspondence from future conferences
>> > during
>> > registration. We will work with our PCO to make sure their registration
>> > system can support that.
>>
>> If it is the same event, I think defaulting to already opted-in is better.
>>
>> Best regards, Eli
>>
>> >
>> > Ultimately, we believe that most of the people who attended Bonn are on
>> > the
>> > "already opted in" master MailChimp list. One of our interests in the
>> > registration list is just tracking things like people who have
>> > attended/registered for both conferences in an effort to fully
>> > understand
>> > the attendee base (i.e., it's not just for sending outbound email).
>> >
>> > Thanks again for your support...
>> >
>> > MT
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 7:27 AM, <till.adams at fossgis.de> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Steven, ConfComm, @Boston-team,
>> >>
>> >> (I included BLOC, as they are the directly affected)
>> >>
>> >> @Steven, thanks to jump in here. I digged a little deeper and although
>> >> the
>> >> system we used for registration is not available any more, I am quite
>> >> sure
>> >> (and found some text drafts for this), that we declared not to hand
>> >> over the
>> >> personal data for registration to anybody else. So this excludes your
>> >> proposed first option and also to hand over the full list to Boston.
>> >> Sorry
>> >> for that.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I think we could do the following:
>> >> We, Bonn team,  will write one last email, reaching out all the
>> >> attendees,
>> >> give them some last facts about F4G'16, include links on articles about
>> >> F4G
>> >> 2016 on several platforms, attach a few selected but really nice
>> >> pictures
>> >> and thank them all for their attendance. In this email we will hint the
>> >> people to Boston and the possibility to actively ask for news about
>> >> F4G'17.
>> >> So people can actively get in touch with the Boston team and request
>> >> for
>> >> further information about F4G'17.
>> >>
>> >> Personally I do not like the platforms, where I have to un-check the
>> >> pre-checked box "Please send me advertising and further information",
>> >> even
>> >> if you have the opportunity to optout. The end of the story is:
>> >> You have to be aware and active, otherwise you get the
>> >> information/advertising/whatever-spam.
>> >> I prefer the other way around: If people do nothing, they do not get
>> >> anything.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> So for the general proceeding on this topic I would propose the
>> >> following:
>> >> First, I would ask BLOC (I like this and really wonder, why we did not
>> >> have this idea before ;-)) to deliver an "optin" link and leave the
>> >> technical proceeding on this to them.
>> >> Second we can ask BLOC to include a(n un-)checked checkbox in their
>> >> registration form "Keep me up to date about upcoming F4G events" which
>> >> includes to at least pass over their email-adress to future teams. In
>> >> any
>> >> information any future F4G team send out, people get the chance to
>> >> optout.
>> >>
>> >> For the technical stuff I see the problem you lined out. That should be
>> >> solved in either way.... just some thoughts on this:
>> >> The mailchimp also needs kind of "administrator" ....
>> >> A perhaps not perfect but very easy and easy-to-realize solution would
>> >> be
>> >> to create a new mailing list "FOSS4G News" and ask people to register,
>> >> if
>> >> they want get the news-feed.
>> >> So every future team can use this address to post their news on their
>> >> event.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Any comments?
>> >>
>> >> Regards, Till
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Am 2016-12-20 12:11, schrieb Steven Feldman:
>> >>>
>> >>> We went through this discussion last year and I’m not sure whether
>> >>> we reached a conclusion.
>> >>>
>> >>> I am in favour of passing 2016 names to 2017 team but I recognise that
>> >>> data protection rules are a constraint. I see 2 options (others may
>> >>> chip in with more)
>> >>>
>> >>>         * Provide the names of all people that ‘ticked the box’ in
>> >>> 2016 -
>> >>> possibly Boston team should send their first mail to this group with
>> >>> an explanation of why they are receiving the mail and an optout
>> >>>         * Send one mail to all of the 2016 names saying that we would
>> >>> like to
>> >>> pass their details to Boston team and giving them the option to opt
>> >>> out by replying ‘unsubscribe’ plus they will always have the
>> >>> option to opt out in the future
>> >>>
>> >>> It would be much easier if OSGeo had a mailchimp or equivalent service
>> >>> that could handle lists and opt outs etc and track mailings, the
>> >>> service could be used by all our global and regional events. A mail
>> >>> chimp account would cost $50/month for up to 5,000 mail recipients (<
>> >>> 2,000 is free)
>> >>>  ______
>> >>> Steven
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 20 Dec 2016, at 10:21, till.adams at fossgis.de [1] wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Dear ConfComm,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I want to discuss and listen to your opinions regarding the
>> >>>> following issue:
>> >>>> Boston asked me to share our attendee list with them, so they can
>> >>>> contact our attendees and deliver their news to them.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> As all non-americans among us might know, we have strict privacy
>> >>>> laws here in Europe. So this is one point and another one is, that
>> >>>> we do not know, whether participants of F4G 2016 are happy to get
>> >>>> contacted by the Boston team. Some of them may, some not. It's even
>> >>>> unsure that those, that registered for Bonn and checked the box,
>> >>>> that they want to get updates from us really like to get contacted
>> >>>> from the next team.
>> >>>> And - as said - I am kind of unsure, how the legal position is, when
>> >>>> I pass the list over...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Do not understand me wrong: I support the Boston team on all
>> >>>> questions and I am happy to help them, but before passing over the
>> >>>> list, I'd like to know about your positions.
>> >>>> Perhaps we also can derive some rules on how to proceed with the
>> >>>> attendees lists in the following years?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Kind regards & happy Chrismas to everybody,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Till
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Conference_dev mailing list
>> >>>> Conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org [2]
>> >>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Links:
>> >>> ------
>> >>> [1] mailto:till.adams at fossgis.de
>> >>> [2] mailto:Conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Michael Terner
>> > Executive Vice President
>> > 617-447-2468 Direct | 617-447-2400 Main
>> > Applied Geographics, Inc.
>> > 24 School Street, Suite 500
>> > Boston, MA 02108
>> > www.AppGeo.com
>> > Celebrating our 25th Anniversary
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>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Terner
> Executive Vice President
> 617-447-2468 Direct | 617-447-2400 Main
> Applied Geographics, Inc.
> 24 School Street, Suite 500
> Boston, MA 02108
> www.AppGeo.com
> Celebrating our 25th Anniversary
>
> This e-mail message and any attachments may contain confidential or legally
> privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient or otherwise
> authorized to receive this message, you should not use, copy, distribute,
> disclose or take any action based on the information contained in this
> e-mail or any attachments. If you have received this message and material in
> error, please advise the sender immediately by reply e-mail and delete this
> message. Thank you on behalf of Applied Geographics, Inc. (AppGeo).