[OSGeo-Conf] FOSS4G

Thu May 12 02:34:45 PDT 2016

Hi Maxi,

I pick up your discussion, but break your email into single issues, so 
that anyone interested in one topic can jump in.

Your point: "FOSS4G CONFERENCES
This is the momentum. Here i have always get inspiration from listening 
talks, discussing with people, talking with friends. It used to be a 
very inclusive event: the peak of the FOSS4G iceberg. I'm saying "it use 
to be" because prices are year by year growing so much that today they 
represent a barrier. I would have liked to came with 5 people from my 
group but this is simply not economically sustainable: as a result the 
younger will lose this opportunity to join the community and breath the 
breeze of Open innovation. If i compare FOSS4G prices (rate per day) 
with other comparable events they are higher. I personally don't need 
fancy locations and I am more interested in involving more people rather 
then having high revenue for the foundation. I want to meet students, 
people from low income countries, small companies, start-up. Let's find 
a way to be Open.."

is one view on FOSS4G (negotiating that OSGeo has to deal with business 
is another one, and I have a totally different opinion here, but that's 
another issue).

As the "responsible" person for this years FOSS4G (and also one of the 
nerds, that took every FOSS4G since 2005 with one exception in 2014) I 
am also not really happy with our prices either, although I must say, 
that we are nearly equal to 2014, but more expensive than 2015, that's 
true.

But, some important issues to take into account before we (you?) 
continue to dream:

1. People tend to see only the prices for the conference. If we could 
save 30% of our costs and being able to offer tickets for 400€ instead 
of 590€ (Early Bird) wouldn't make that big difference in total costs 
for the attendees at the end. This because there are also travel and 
accommodation costs which are out of our influence (see, my flight to 
Seoul last year was about 1200€, accommodation 700€ - looking at this, a 
conference fee of 400.- compared to 600.- does not really make that big 
difference). Even in a city like Bonn, where accommodation rates are 
moderate, you should at least calculate 70€/day, plus food, beer, etc.
So, the fact, that tickets are more expensive than last year couldn't 
be the only reason not being able to bring 5 people to Bonn. Also this 
view completely negotiates that there are definitely costs, that we have 
to cover.

2. Tieing on here, although this is another discussion: The 
requirements of OSGeo bear some parameters, that really rise up costs: 
Hire a conference center, need to have a PCO and include the Gala Event. 
These are all nice ideas, but of course they all result in higher costs 
and with that in higher ticket fees. As long as OSGeo (especially you 
should remember ;-)) refuses to give a 100% financial backup, the 
calculation of income to reach the break even drives LOC's to calculate 
much more carefully - and with that with higher fees.

3. Regarding the most expensive part of our conference - the conference 
center: In most cities it is simply impossible finding a location where 
you could run a conference with that a size of up to 1000 attendees. And 
hiring a conference center is expensive, regardless where in the world.

This just as a quick review - having time to think little more, I am 
sure I'd find many other reasons, why we should stop dreaming here when 
thinking about having a global conference that everybody is able to 
join, where you just meet good friends and have some nice beers 
together. Everything simply does not work as long as there is no source 
of income that makes LOC's and OSGeo independent of financial success of 
a FOSS4G conference.

Perhaps there is a need for a discussion and also a decision, which 
focus we/OSGeo want/s to give our annual global event. As a person from 
the business side (which is important as engine for development of the 
projects, see recent email from Jeroen), I say that one global 
professional conference is definitely required. And having something 
like studentship programme, travel grants helps to enable at least some 
people to join that conference, that normally couldn't afford it. But 
most of them couldn't even afford attending anyway, even if conference 
fees were less than half of what they are.
Perhaps the spirit of the conference that everybody could afford 
(especially because of travel costs), must be carried out on a 
regional/continental scale ?

BTW: Yes, it's me arguing like this, and I am one of the last guys that 
fighted as long as possible to keep our FOSSGIS conference free of 
charge ;-)

Last point - regarding your people from your group: If they are 
students, they could have applied for our studentship programme. They 
can try, but looks like that we are nearly complete here...

Just my 2 (long) cents.

Till

Am 2016-05-11 11:01, schrieb massimiliano cannata:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: <conference_dev-owner at lists.osgeo.org [1]>
> Date: 2016-05-11 10:41 GMT+02:00
> Subject: Incubation, osgeo-EU and FOSS4G
> To: massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch [2]
>
> Your message has been rejected, probably because you are not
>  subscribed to the mailing list and the lists policy is to prohibit
>  non-members from posting to it.  If you think that your messages are
>  being rejected in error, contact the mailing list owner at
>  conference_dev-owner at lists.osgeo.org [3].
>
> ---------- Messaggio inoltrato ----------
> From: Massimiliano Cannata <massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch [4]>
> To: OSGeo Board <board at lists.osgeo.org [5]>, OSGeo Discussions
> <discuss at lists.osgeo.org [6]>, OSGeo Incubator Committee
> <incubator at lists.osgeo.org [7]>, "<conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org
> [8]>" <conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org [9]>
> Cc: 
> Date: Wed, 11 May 2016 10:41:55 +0200
> Subject: Incubation, osgeo-EU and FOSS4G
>
> Sorry for cross-posting but these recent topics (which took place on
> different lists) took myself to reflect about our foundation.
>
> Summary of the long mail below (for those who dont have time go 
> trough
> :-D )
>
> =================================================================
>
> DISCUSSION: only a small number of people take part to the
> discussions, why?
>
> INCUBATION: we care about high quality, long term sustainable and
> reliable solutions, who cares of governance models?
>
> BUSINESS AND OSGEO(EU): we are a foundation of people not of
> companies, we dont have to do business!
>
> FOSS4G CONFERENCES: fees are a barrier, we are building exclusive
> events rather then being inclusive, who care about revenue!
>
> More explanation of my thoughts (for those who have time to spend and
> go deeper :-o )
>
> ==================================================================
>
> Im an environmental engineer and thus far from being a rigorous
> informatics or an economist or a social science expert. Nevertheless
> in these last 20 years (from Bangkok to Seoul without missing a 
> single
> one) I had the opportunity to met those words, make some experience
> and learn a bit.
>  Thats to say that i do not have the truth in my pockets and Im open
> to change my view.
>
> DISCUSSIONS
>  First a small consideration, those topics are discussed by a small
> number of people with respect of the total members of our community.
> It means that A) the arguments are not of high interest B) silent
> people are shy and do not feel to be in the position to add value to
> the conversation C) people think it is a waste of time.
>  This is often happening and my impression is that people just dont
> care to much of these political issues but only of technical matters.
>
> INCUBATION
>  My understanding is that OSGeo trough the incubation process aims at
> guarantee high quality, long term sustainable and reliable solutions
> to show that FOSS Geospatial technology is valuable and credible. In
> this view the governance model adopted (PSC, dictator or whatever) is
> of secondary importance to me as long as the software respond to the
> above mentioned requisites. I personally prefer clear process rather
> then open-in-words but fake-in-fact rules.
>
> BUSINESS AND OSGEO(EU)
>  OSGeo is an organisation of people. Not of sectors or groups or
> parties. Of course people belong to categories and this tend to
> influence the way they see the world. For this reason people tend to
> contribute to the community for their competence and interest within
> committees or working groups. It is not the mandate of OSGeo making
> lobbies or acquire mandates. To me OSGeo should get together great
> projects and people to offer the world the possibility of advance and
> improve the life of people. I know It is a bit exaggerated but when i
> think of open source i see it as a mean of equity: like making 
> accessible food and sanitation and drinking water and medicine to
> everyone in the world. Making tools for a better governance available
> to all.
>  OSGeo is about mutually sharing experiences, ideas, solutions not
> building business. For this LocationTech which is a community of
> companies / entities I understood is more suited.
>  So my vision is OSGeo focused on people not on companies or groups.
> Splitting the community is not an advancement but a loss of value.
>
> FOSS4G CONFERENCES
>  This is the momentum. Here i have always get inspiration from
> listening talks, discussing with people, talking with friends. It 
> used
> to be a very inclusive event: the peak of the FOSS4G iceberg. Im
> saying "it use to be" because prices are year by year growing so much
> that today they represent a barrier. I would have liked to came with 
> 5
> people from my group but this is simply not economically sustainable:
> as a result the younger will lose this opportunity to join the
> community and breath the breeze of Open innovation. If i compare
> FOSS4G prices (rate per day) with other comparable events they are
> higher. I personally dont need fancy locations and I am more
> interested in involving more people rather then having high revenue
> for the foundation. I want to meet students, people from low income
> countries, small companies, start-up. Lets find a way to be Open..
>
> MAY THE FOSS BE WITH YOU !
>
> --
>
> --
>
> Dr. Eng. Massimiliano Cannata
> Responsabile Area Geomatica
> Istituto Scienze della Terra
> Scuola Universitaria Professionale della Svizzera Italiana
> Via Trevano, c.p. 72
> CH-6952 Canobbio-Lugano
> Tel: +41 (0)58 666 62 14
> Fax +41 (0)58 666 62 09
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] mailto:conference_dev-owner at lists.osgeo.org
> [2] mailto:massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch
> [3] mailto:conference_dev-owner at lists.osgeo.org
> [4] mailto:massimiliano.cannata at supsi.ch
> [5] mailto:board at lists.osgeo.org
> [6] mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org
> [7] mailto:incubator at lists.osgeo.org
> [8] mailto:conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org
> [9] mailto:conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org