[OSGeo-Conf] [Board] Amended MOTION (items 1-5): Conference Committee - Updating Membership Policies and Process

till.adams at fossgis.de till.adams at fossgis.de
Sat Oct 8 03:59:40 PDT 2016

Dear Cameron,

many thanks for this move forward! I second every statement you've 

Hope that  this is a new start to get us all going in the same 
direction again ;-)


Am 2016-10-07 23:27, schrieb Cameron Shorter:
> Hi Maria,
> I fear that you are not appreciating that by applying a veto, and
> then not stepping up to "do whatever it takes to get resolution", you
> are breaking one of the core principles of successful open source
> communities.
> It breaks the motivation and enthusiasm of volunteers. Note Stephen's
> initial drive, motivation and enthusiasm changing to his submitting
> his resignation.
> Stephen's Return-On-Effort for his contribution has been
> significantly impacted by the amount of red-tape imposed upon him. It
> has impacted one of our key human driving motivators - our desire for
> autonomy and ability to set our own direction. (Refer to Daniel 
> Pink's
> "Drive" [1] which summarises research on motivation).
> Likewise we have seen the rest of the conference committee suffer
> email fatigue and drop out of the conversation. Silently dropping out
> of the volunteer community.
> Please ask yourself:
> * Is OSGeo better without Stephen being involved in it?
> * Is OSGeo better without Stephen taking on the significant amount of
> work he has been doing cleaning up FOSS4G processes?
> * Am I prepared to take on all the work that Stephen is doing if he
> is to leave?
> * Am I prepared to lead a new proposal through a voting process all
> the way to conclusion? (Noting how hard it has been so far)
> If your answer is "No" to any of the above, please re-consider your
> veto vote. I suspect you really would like to back our enthusiastic
> OSGeo volunteers. Usually it is better to get a "good enough" 
> solution
> than "no solution at all". It can always be improved in a later
> iteration. And I suspect you would want to attract and encourage our
> volunteers to participate?
> [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc
> Warm regards, Cameron
> On 8/10/2016 1:33 AM, Even Rouault wrote:
>> Maria,
>> I'm not sure what is the exact scope you intend with "Committees", 
>> and in
>> particular if that would apply to the voting rules of the PSC of 
>> projects, but
>> as far as I'm concerned, I'm rather satisfied with what we have 
>> currently (for
>> the GDAL project). I would fear that requirements for a minimum 
>> quorum could
>> cause issues since it is not uncommon to have very few people taking 
>> part to
>> the vote of some decisions.
>> Eli Adam pointed in
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/conference_dev/2016-September/003987.html
>> several examples of different projects with low vote participation 
>> in some
>> votes. That is a bit sad of course, we'd like to have 100% 
>> participation, but
>> that's the reality.
>> Best,
>> Even
>>> Dear Steven,
>>> I don't withdraw my vetoe. As said,  I'll ask  the Board to decide 
>>> about
>>> the governance of the Committees.
>>> Have a wonderful holiday!
>>> Cheers to everybody.
>>> Maria
>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>> Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
>>> Vice Rector for Como Campus and GIS Professor
>>> Politecnico di Milano
>>> ISPRS WG IV/4"Collaborative crowdsourced cloud mapping (C3M)"; 
>>> OSGeo;
>>> ICA-OSGeo-ISPRS Advisory Board; NASA WorldWind Europa Challenge; 
>>> SIFET Sol
>>> Katz Award 2015
>>> Via Natta, 12/14 - 22100 COMO (ITALY)
>>> Tel. +39-031-3327336 - Mob. +39-328-0023867 - fax. +39-031-3327321
>>> e-mail1: <mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it> maria.brovelli at polimi.it
>>> e-mail2: prorettrice at como.polimi.it
>>> ________________________________
>>> Da: Conference_dev <conference_dev-bounces at lists.osgeo.org> per 
>>> conto di
>>> Steven Feldman <shfeldman at gmail.com> Inviato: martedì 4 ottobre 
>>> 2016 20.18
>>> A: Conference Dev
>>> Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Conf] [Board] Amended MOTION (items 1-5): 
>>> Conference
>>> Committee - Updating Membership Policies and Process
>>> It isn’t clear to me whether Venka and Maria withdrew their vetoes.
>>> My reading is that the committee whilst voting by a majority for 
>>> the
>>> original motion does not feel strongly about the matter and there 
>>> is no
>>> appetite to extend the discussion. I do not wish to take a chair’s
>>> initiative to force the motion through and then attempt to impose 
>>> its
>>> consequences, I think that should be up to the next chair of the
>>> committee.
>>> It is my intention to stand down as chair of the conference 
>>> committee at
>>> the end of the 2018 selection process.
>>> So let’s leave the motion undecided and focus on the selection for 
>>> 2018
>>> until the end of the year.
>>> In that regard, I will be travelling between October 13th and 
>>> November 7th,
>>> internet may be limited for some of the time. Is there anyone 
>>> willing to
>>> stand in to push things along (facilitate questions on LoI's, 
>>> trigger the
>>> vote and notify the results) whilst I am away? I will be back to 
>>> pick
>>> things up before the final proposals come in.
>>> Cheers
>>> ______
>>> Steven
>>> On 30 Sep 2016, at 13:45, Cameron Shorter
>>> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com<mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>> 
>>> wrote:
>>> Steven, others,
>>> The conference committee is ineffective if it can't make efficient
>>> decisions. Usually, any decision is better than no decision, and is
>>> certainly the case for this motion. I'm in favour of Steven, as 
>>> chair,
>>> using his best judgement to finalise this vote and move forward to 
>>> being
>>> effective again.
>>> Steven, I trust your judgement, and you have my vote.
>>> Warm regards, Cameron
>>> On 30/09/2016 7:35 PM, Steven Feldman wrote:
>>> I am combining Maria’s mail and Venka’s (copied below) and 
>>> responding to
>>> both
>>> Several people have expressed concern that a lot of committee 
>>> members have
>>> not voted on the recent amendment and have suggested that if they 
>>> do not
>>> vote in a further round of voting on the amendment and/or the 
>>> original
>>> motion they should be obliged to stand down for the committee.
>>> It has been suggested that not voting indicates a lack of 
>>> commitment. I
>>> disagree, we have a committee whose expertise is in the delivery of 
>>> FOSS4G
>>> events, particularly the global events. I would not be surprised or
>>> concerned if several of them are not interested in the procedural 
>>> details
>>> of what quorum we should require on the odd occasion that we vote. 
>>> As long
>>> as they commit their time and experience to carefully considering 
>>> the
>>> LoI’s and Proposals in the FOSS4G selection process, asking 
>>> penetrating
>>> and insightful questions and then voting to select our 
>>> recommendation to
>>> the board I am grateful for their participation.
>>> Not withstanding what I have just said, I do believe that the 
>>> committee
>>> size should be limited to 11 and should have a defined retirement 
>>> process
>>> as I proposed in the original motion.
>>> I don’t see the lack of votes for Maria’s amendment as a 
>>> dereliction of
>>> duty, I see it as a sign of exhaustion with this seemingly never 
>>> ending
>>> debate. The mail trail now exceeds 120! After extensive discussion, 
>>> the
>>> original motion which incorporated the standard Committee 
>>> Guidelines on
>>> voting was voted for by a strong majority of the committee (+1 = 
>>> 12, +0 =
>>> 1, -1 = 2, no votes = 3 of which one verbally supported the motion 
>>> but did
>>> not place a formal vote). We have now spent nearly 2 working weeks
>>> discussing  amendments and have voted on one (there are potentially 
>>> 4 more
>>> amendments to discuss and vote on, one of which potentially 
>>> reverses the
>>> intention of the original motion by seeking to increase rather than 
>>> reduce
>>> the size of the committee). In my opinion, this is not the 
>>> reasonable
>>> pursuit of consensus it is bordering on an abuse of process.
>>> The voting rules that were proposed in the original motion are 
>>> based on the
>>> Committee Guidelines which are in use in several of our committees 
>>> and
>>> PSCs. If these guidelines represent a ‘benevolent dictatorship’ 
>>> (what
>>> others may describe as a do-ocracy) that is now considered 
>>> unacceptable,
>>> then it is for the Board to initiate a discussion (and presumably a 
>>> vote
>>> amongst the charter membership) that changes these guidelines for 
>>> all
>>> committees not just for the Conference Committee.
>>> It is up to Venka and Maria if they wish to insist on a further 
>>> vote. If we
>>> are to vote again, we need to be clear whether we are voting on the
>>> original motion or the amended motion or a further amended motion 
>>> which
>>> also includes some or all of the further amendments (2-5) which 
>>> have yet
>>> to be fully discussed.
>>> I recognise that as the proposer of the original motion who has 
>>> strong
>>> views on this topic, I may be struggling to maintain the balance 
>>> and
>>> objectivity necessary to act as chair on this matter. If anyone 
>>> feels that
>>> the committee would be better served by me standing aside for the
>>> remainder of the discussion and voting on this matter, please say 
>>> so and I
>>> will temporarily stand down. When the committee reaches a 
>>> conclusion on
>>> the motion and we have been through the cycle of retirements and 
>>> elections
>>> (presumably early 2017 after the FOSS4G 2018 selection is 
>>> completed), I
>>> suggest that the new committee selects its chairman.
>>> I will be going off line from the end of business today until 
>>> Wednesday to
>>> celebrate the Jewish New Year. If there is to be further discussion 
>>> or
>>> voting initiated I hope that the vote extends until I am back 
>>> online.
>>> Shanah tovah u’metukah (may you have a good and sweet year)
>>> ______
>>> Steven
>>> On 30 Sep 2016, at 07:43, Maria Antonia Brovelli
>>> <maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it>> wrote:
>>> Steven
>>> I'm also confused and demoralised as well. The main problem in my 
>>> opinion
>>> is the inactivity of this commission (it could be also of other
>>> commissions, but I'm not part of other commissions). I'm surprised 
>>> about
>>> how the main problem is to find an easy solution when the problem 
>>> is why 9
>>> people didn't find the time (= interest) of voting. Even if 
>>> volunteers
>>> and, in my opinion, more as volunteers we have to be reliable 
>>> people
>>> committed with our community. Unfortunately I'm not able to notice 
>>> that
>>> attitude in the last voting. If I have to tell you the truth, I'm, 
>>> above
>>> all, sad and surprise that for the most of people this is a normal
>>> situation at which we have simply to put a patch. Sorry for being 
>>> so
>>> direct, obviously I'm not thinking of you, who have been doing so 
>>> much for
>>> this Committee ( thanks again) or other people, but the situation 
>>> is
>>> really and definitely different with respect of that I thought to 
>>> find in
>>> an OSGeo Committee. Good day to everybody.
>>> Maria
>>> Inviato dal mio dispositivo Samsung
>>> -------- Messaggio originale --------
>>> Da: Steven Feldman 
>>> <shfeldman at gmail.com<mailto:shfeldman at gmail.com>>
>>> Data: 30/09/2016 00:48 (GMT+01:00)
>>> A: Maria Antonia Brovelli
>>> <maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it>>, 
>>> Conference
>>> Dev
>>> <conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org>>
>>> Oggetto: Re: R: [OSGeo-Conf] [Board] Amended MOTION (items 1-5):
>>> Conference Committee - Updating Membership Policies and Process
>>> Maria
>>> I am confused. I think you mean that the amendment did not pass? 
>>> Are you
>>> withdrawing your veto of the original motion (which had support 
>>> from a
>>> substantial majority of the committee)?
>>> What do you mean by "Therefore we will vote as in the past for the 
>>> other
>>> items."?  What other items? The only voting rules we had in the 
>>> past were
>>> the Committee Guidelines, which were incorporated into the original
>>> motion. Can you clarify?
>>> Venka could you advise whether your veto still stands following 
>>> this vote
>>> on Maria's amendment?
>>> This example of our decision making process cannot be appropriate 
>>> for a
>>> voluntary community. Please let's bring this to a conclusion
>>> Steven
>>> On 29 Sep 2016, at 22:46, Maria Antonia Brovelli
>>> <maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it>> wrote:
>>> Dear Steven
>>> The motion didn't pass.
>>> Therefore we will vote as in the past for the other items.
>>> Many thanks.
>>> Best regards.
>>> Maria
>>> Inviato dal mio dispositivo Samsung
>>> Venka said:
>>> Dear All,
>>> Sorry if this mail sounds a little mixed-up as
>>> I am trying to answer multiple points raised
>>> after the voting status on the amended motion
>>> was declared.
>>> The way I look at the 25% quorum threshold, suggested by Eli,
>>> is that it is close to the "benevolent dictatorship"
>>> decision model. One of our projects in incubation
>>> was asked to retire since the lead developer proposed
>>> to adopt such a model for the project PSC.
>>> Our Charter Member rules allow for retiring
>>> members who have not voted over a continuous period
>>> of two years. Since charter members vote only for
>>> the board election, this means that they are retired
>>> if they do not cast their one vote (for Board election)
>>> in consecutive years.
>>> Considering the above, I suggest that the Amended Motion
>>> for quorum be tabled for one last time with a specific
>>> indication that members who have not voted for
>>> the motion in two (or three) consecutive rounds of voting
>>> will be considered as retired and the votes by the
>>> members who participate in the third round of voting
>>> would be considered valid.
>>> If we still have only 7 members voting for the third round
>>> of voting, the majority votes among the 7 could be
>>> used if the motion has passed or not.
>>> Regarding the query from Steve whether some of us would
>>> like reconsider our votes in the initial round of voting,
>>> I think, that since the voting results were already
>>> declared, it would be better to decide with the third
>>> and final round of voting.
>>> Best
>>> Venka
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Conference_dev mailing list
>>> Conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:Conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org>
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev
>>> --
>>> Cameron Shorter
>>> M +61 419 142 254
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Conference_dev mailing list
>>> Conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:Conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org>
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/conference_dev

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