[OSGeo-Conf] [Board] Amended MOTION (items 1-5): Conference Committee - Updating Membership Policies and Process
Maria Antonia Brovelli
maria.brovelli at polimi.it
Sun Oct 9 12:54:17 PDT 2016
Of course I'm not enthusiastic, I'm not enthusiastic at all. In fact, as I wrote when I was not part of the Board and a as logic consequence of the situation (the message from many people was: the CC decides about conferences, the Board about governance), we asked the Board to discuss and to decide about the governance. And in order not to slow down the activities, we (now I'm part of the Board) have a Board meeting very soon.
Therefore, as you can see, I'm promptly moving toward searching a solution.
Thanks a lot for your detailed suggestions and comments (all of you).
Have a lovely week.
Maria
----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Vice Rector for Como Campus and GIS Professor
Politecnico di Milano
ISPRS WG IV/4"Collaborative crowdsourced cloud mapping (C3M)"; OSGeo; ICA-OSGeo-ISPRS Advisory Board; NASA WorldWind Europa Challenge; SIFET
Sol Katz Award 2015
Via Natta, 12/14 - 22100 COMO (ITALY)
Tel. +39-031-3327336 - Mob. +39-328-0023867 - fax. +39-031-3327321
e-mail1: <mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it> maria.brovelli at polimi.it
e-mail2: prorettrice at como.polimi.it
________________________________
Da: Conference_dev <conference_dev-bounces at lists.osgeo.org> per conto di Paul Ramsey <pramsey at cleverelephant.ca>
Inviato: domenica 9 ottobre 2016 16.59
A: conference
Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Conf] [Board] Amended MOTION (items 1-5): Conference Committee - Updating Membership Policies and Process
If most members of this committee despair at this fiasco, I can only imagine the enthusiasm with which the board will take it up. Except maybe they'll be very enthusiastic, since it is the board members on this committee that have stuck sticks in the spokes of Steven's motion.
I see recent conference chairs and prospective chairs in support of Steven's changes, and Board members opposed. I supported them myself, even though that meant superannuating myself from the committee. Well and good: it's been a decade since my conference, and a smaller committee might actually be able to move a little more nimbly and do more than just winnow a couple RPF responses every 12 months.
Venka and Maria, you seem surprisingly willing to destroy the village in order to save it. I dunno what to think.
ATB,
P
On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 5:41 AM, Venkatesh Raghavan <venka.osgeo at gmail.com<mailto:venka.osgeo at gmail.com>> wrote:
Dear All,
Firstly, the amended motion [1] on quorum can be re-proposed
since it did not pass due to lack of sufficient votes.
I had voted on the amended [1] and original [2] motions
taking into consideration the present guidelines [3]
which has been in use by our foundation for the last
10 years.
I standby my -1 vote (which represents a veto as per our current
guidelines [3]) for the original motion [2]. I also stand by my
+1 vote for the amended motion [1] on quorum requirement.
I think that the contents of the original motion [2] calls for consultation with the board since it reflects a major change in the existing committee guidelines [3] which it is not a matter to be discussed and decided on the conference mailing list alone.
Also, I think that once the voting on the motions are completed and
the results are declared, it is inappropriate to ask members to change
their votes.
As mentioned in the beginning of this mail, the amended motion [1] could
be re-tabled with the appropriate voting deadline (1 week, 10 days?).
[1] https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/conference_dev/2016-September/004003.html
[2] https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/conference_dev/2016-September/003859.html
[3] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Committee_Guidelines
Best
Venka
On 10/9/2016 7:49 PM, till.adams at fossgis.de<mailto:till.adams at fossgis.de> wrote:
Dear all,
following Peter, Steven and Cameron, I'd propose that Venka and Maria
make alternative proposals on which we can go on to vote within a
certain period of time (don't mind, if 5 days or 10 days). If they do
not deliver an alternative proposal, I'd encourage Steven (who is still
our chair and also put this motion initially on the board) to
re-proposes the originally proposal for a majority vote.
With this we at least continue our work and come to a solution.
Everything else would be just a preservation of a not cleared condition
and I assume (and hope), that this is not what Venka and Maria intended.
Till
As Peter said, we can
Am 2016-10-09 02:45, schrieb Michael Terner:
Please count another STRONG +1 to Camerons observations and
suggestions.
>From our vantage of needing strong, stable support from Conference Dev
(for FOSS4G 17 in Boston), there is a need to bring these discussions
to closure, and without losing some of the braintrust. Again, from our
perspective less bureaucracy, and more agility will be good things.
And, while the pool of people who are "most interested and involved"
may go through some cycles, there has always seemed to be a strong
critical mass, and thats fine. Would love to see an outcome where
Stevens proposals can come into some form of being, and for Stevens
hand to return to the tiller...
Respectfully, MT
On Sat, Oct 8, 2016 at 1:04 PM, Peter Batty <peter at ebatty.com<mailto:peter at ebatty.com> [37]>
wrote:
+1 to Camerons email.
For what its worth, it was mentioned somewhere along the way that
the board voting procedure, which I think is what we are supposed to
be following in terms of these vetoes etc, says that "If a motion is
vetoed, and it cannot be revised to satisfy all parties, then it can
be resubmitted for an override vote, in which a majority of all
Board members indicating +1 is required to pass it."
https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Voting_Procedure [33]
So if someone wants to re-propose the original motion which had
strong majority support at the time, we can re-vote on that, if
enough people are still watching. I dont especially want to
re-propose it myself as I dont have a strong interest in this
procedural stuff, and I have lost track of whether there were any
amendments to the original motion proposed by Steven that should be
incorporated in a re-submitted motion.
On Fri, Oct 7, 2016 at 3:27 PM, Cameron Shorter
<cameron.shorter at gmail.com<mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com> [34]> wrote:
Hi Maria,
I fear that you are not appreciating that by applying a veto, and
then not stepping up to "do whatever it takes to get resolution",
you are breaking one of the core principles of successful open
source communities.
It breaks the motivation and enthusiasm of volunteers. Note
Stephens initial drive, motivation and enthusiasm changing to his
submitting his resignation.
Stephens Return-On-Effort for his contribution has been
significantly impacted by the amount of red-tape imposed upon him.
It has impacted one of our key human driving motivators - our
desire for autonomy and ability to set our own direction. (Refer
to Daniel Pinks "Drive" [1] which summarises research on
motivation).
Likewise we have seen the rest of the conference committee suffer
email fatigue and drop out of the conversation. Silently dropping
out of the volunteer community.
Please ask yourself:
* Is OSGeo better without Stephen being involved in it?
* Is OSGeo better without Stephen taking on the significant
amount of work he has been doing cleaning up FOSS4G processes?
* Am I prepared to take on all the work that Stephen is doing if
he is to leave?
* Am I prepared to lead a new proposal through a voting process
all the way to conclusion? (Noting how hard it has been so far)
If your answer is "No" to any of the above, please re-consider
your veto vote. I suspect you really would like to back our
enthusiastic OSGeo volunteers. Usually it is better to get a "good
enough" solution than "no solution at all". It can always be
improved in a later iteration. And I suspect you would want to
attract and encourage our volunteers to participate?
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc [29]
Warm regards, Cameron
On 8/10/2016 1:33 AM, Even Rouault wrote:
Maria,
Im not sure what is the exact scope you intend with
"Committees", and in
particular if that would apply to the voting rules of the PSC
of projects, but
as far as Im concerned, Im rather satisfied with what we have
currently (for
the GDAL project). I would fear that requirements for a minimum
quorum could
cause issues since it is not uncommon to have very few people
taking part to
the vote of some decisions.
Eli Adam pointed in
https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/conference_dev/2016-September/003987.html
[28]
several examples of different projects with low vote
participation in some
votes. That is a bit sad of course, wed like to have 100%
participation, but
thats the reality.
Best,
Even
Dear Steven,
I dont withdraw my vetoe. As said, Ill ask the Board to
decide about
the governance of the Committees.
Have a wonderful holiday!
Cheers to everybody.
Maria
----------------------------------------------------
Prof. Maria Antonia Brovelli
Vice Rector for Como Campus and GIS Professor
Politecnico di Milano
ISPRS WG IV/4"Collaborative crowdsourced cloud mapping
(C3M)"; OSGeo;
ICA-OSGeo-ISPRS Advisory Board; NASA WorldWind Europa
Challenge; SIFET Sol
Katz Award 2015
Via Natta, 12/14 - 22100 COMO (ITALY)
Tel. +39-031-3327336<tel:%2B39-031-3327336> [1] - Mob. +39-328-0023867<tel:%2B39-328-0023867> [2] - fax.
+39-031-3327321<tel:%2B39-031-3327321> [3]
e-mail1: <mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it> [4]>
maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it> [5]
e-mail2: prorettrice at como.polimi.it<mailto:prorettrice at como.polimi.it> [6]
________________________________
Da: Conference_dev <conference_dev-bounces at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:conference_dev-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
[7]> per conto di
Steven Feldman <shfeldman at gmail.com<mailto:shfeldman at gmail.com> [8]> Inviato: martedì 4
ottobre 2016 20.18
A: Conference Dev
Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Conf] [Board] Amended MOTION (items 1-5):
Conference
Committee - Updating Membership Policies and Process
It isn’t clear to me whether Venka and Maria withdrew their
vetoes.
My reading is that the committee whilst voting by a majority
for the
original motion does not feel strongly about the matter and
there is no
appetite to extend the discussion. I do not wish to take a
chair’s
initiative to force the motion through and then attempt to
impose its
consequences, I think that should be up to the next chair of
the
committee.
It is my intention to stand down as chair of the conference
committee at
the end of the 2018 selection process.
So let’s leave the motion undecided and focus on the
selection for 2018
until the end of the year.
In that regard, I will be travelling between October 13th and
November 7th,
internet may be limited for some of the time. Is there anyone
willing to
stand in to push things along (facilitate questions on LoIs,
trigger the
vote and notify the results) whilst I am away? I will be back
to pick
things up before the final proposals come in.
Cheers
______
Steven
On 30 Sep 2016, at 13:45, Cameron Shorter
<cameron.shorter at gmail.com<mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>
[9]<mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com<mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com> [10]>> wrote:
Steven, others,
The conference committee is ineffective if it cant make
efficient
decisions. Usually, any decision is better than no decision,
and is
certainly the case for this motion. Im in favour of Steven,
as chair,
using his best judgement to finalise this vote and move
forward to being
effective again.
Steven, I trust your judgement, and you have my vote.
Warm regards, Cameron
On 30/09/2016 7:35 PM, Steven Feldman wrote:
I am combining Maria’s mail and Venka’s (copied below)
and responding to
both
Several people have expressed concern that a lot of committee
members have
not voted on the recent amendment and have suggested that if
they do not
vote in a further round of voting on the amendment and/or the
original
motion they should be obliged to stand down for the
committee.
It has been suggested that not voting indicates a lack of
commitment. I
disagree, we have a committee whose expertise is in the
delivery of FOSS4G
events, particularly the global events. I would not be
surprised or
concerned if several of them are not interested in the
procedural details
of what quorum we should require on the odd occasion that we
vote. As long
as they commit their time and experience to carefully
considering the
LoI’s and Proposals in the FOSS4G selection process, asking
penetrating
and insightful questions and then voting to select our
recommendation to
the board I am grateful for their participation.
Not withstanding what I have just said, I do believe that the
committee
size should be limited to 11 and should have a defined
retirement process
as I proposed in the original motion.
I don’t see the lack of votes for Maria’s amendment as a
dereliction of
duty, I see it as a sign of exhaustion with this seemingly
never ending
debate. The mail trail now exceeds 120! After extensive
discussion, the
original motion which incorporated the standard Committee
Guidelines on
voting was voted for by a strong majority of the committee
(+1 = 12, +0 =
1, -1 = 2, no votes = 3 of which one verbally supported the
motion but did
not place a formal vote). We have now spent nearly 2 working
weeks
discussing amendments and have voted on one (there are
potentially 4 more
amendments to discuss and vote on, one of which potentially
reverses the
intention of the original motion by seeking to increase
rather than reduce
the size of the committee). In my opinion, this is not the
reasonable
pursuit of consensus it is bordering on an abuse of process.
The voting rules that were proposed in the original motion
are based on the
Committee Guidelines which are in use in several of our
committees and
PSCs. If these guidelines represent a ‘benevolent
dictatorship’ (what
others may describe as a do-ocracy) that is now considered
unacceptable,
then it is for the Board to initiate a discussion (and
presumably a vote
amongst the charter membership) that changes these guidelines
for all
committees not just for the Conference Committee.
It is up to Venka and Maria if they wish to insist on a
further vote. If we
are to vote again, we need to be clear whether we are voting
on the
original motion or the amended motion or a further amended
motion which
also includes some or all of the further amendments (2-5)
which have yet
to be fully discussed.
I recognise that as the proposer of the original motion who
has strong
views on this topic, I may be struggling to maintain the
balance and
objectivity necessary to act as chair on this matter. If
anyone feels that
the committee would be better served by me standing aside for
the
remainder of the discussion and voting on this matter, please
say so and I
will temporarily stand down. When the committee reaches a
conclusion on
the motion and we have been through the cycle of retirements
and elections
(presumably early 2017 after the FOSS4G 2018 selection is
completed), I
suggest that the new committee selects its chairman.
I will be going off line from the end of business today until
Wednesday to
celebrate the Jewish New Year. If there is to be further
discussion or
voting initiated I hope that the vote extends until I am back
online.
Shanah tovah u’metukah (may you have a good and sweet year)
______
Steven
On 30 Sep 2016, at 07:43, Maria Antonia Brovelli
<maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it>
[11]<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it> [12]>> wrote:
Steven
Im also confused and demoralised as well. The main problem in
my opinion
is the inactivity of this commission (it could be also of
other
commissions, but Im not part of other commissions). Im
surprised about
how the main problem is to find an easy solution when the
problem is why 9
people didnt find the time (= interest) of voting. Even if
volunteers
and, in my opinion, more as volunteers we have to be reliable
people
committed with our community. Unfortunately Im not able to
notice that
attitude in the last voting. If I have to tell you the truth,
Im, above
all, sad and surprise that for the most of people this is a
normal
situation at which we have simply to put a patch. Sorry for
being so
direct, obviously Im not thinking of you, who have been doing
so much for
this Committee ( thanks again) or other people, but the
situation is
really and definitely different with respect of that I
thought to find in
an OSGeo Committee. Good day to everybody.
Maria
Inviato dal mio dispositivo Samsung
-------- Messaggio originale --------
Da: Steven Feldman <shfeldman at gmail.com<mailto:shfeldman at gmail.com>
[13]<mailto:shfeldman at gmail.com<mailto:shfeldman at gmail.com> [14]>>
Data: 30/09/2016 00:48 (GMT+01:00)
A: Maria Antonia Brovelli
<maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it>
[15]<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it> [16]>>, Conference
Dev
<conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org>
[17]<mailto:conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:conference_dev at lists.osgeo.org> [18]>>
Oggetto: Re: R: [OSGeo-Conf] [Board] Amended MOTION (items
1-5):
Conference Committee - Updating Membership Policies and
Process
Maria
I am confused. I think you mean that the amendment did not
pass? Are you
withdrawing your veto of the original motion (which had
support from a
substantial majority of the committee)?
What do you mean by "Therefore we will vote as in the past
for the other
items."? What other items? The only voting rules we had in
the past were
the Committee Guidelines, which were incorporated into the
original
motion. Can you clarify?
Venka could you advise whether your veto still stands
following this vote
on Marias amendment?
This example of our decision making process cannot be
appropriate for a
voluntary community. Please lets bring this to a conclusion
Steven
On 29 Sep 2016, at 22:46, Maria Antonia Brovelli
<maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it>
[19]<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it> [20]>> wrote:
Dear Steven
The motion didnt pass.
Therefore we will vote as in the past for the other items.
Many thanks.
Best regards.
Maria
Inviato dal mio dispositivo Samsung
Venka said:
Dear All,
Sorry if this mail sounds a little mixed-up as
I am trying to answer multiple points raised
after the voting status on the amended motion
was declared.
The way I look at the 25% quorum threshold, suggested by Eli,
is that it is close to the "benevolent dictatorship"
decision model. One of our projects in incubation
was asked to retire since the lead developer proposed
to adopt such a model for the project PSC.
Our Charter Member rules allow for retiring
members who have not voted over a continuous period
of two years. Since charter members vote only for
the board election, this means that they are retired
if they do not cast their one vote (for Board election)
in consecutive years.
Considering the above, I suggest that the Amended Motion
for quorum be tabled for one last time with a specific
indication that members who have not voted for
the motion in two (or three) consecutive rounds of voting
will be considered as retired and the votes by the
members who participate in the third round of voting
would be considered valid.
If we still have only 7 members voting for the third round
of voting, the majority votes among the 7 could be
used if the motion has passed or not.
Regarding the query from Steve whether some of us would
like reconsider our votes in the initial round of voting,
I think, that since the voting results were already
declared, it would be better to decide with the third
and final round of voting.
Best
Venka
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