[OSGeo-Discuss] Comparision between MapServer/OpenLayers and ESRI ArcIMS

[John Callahan]

A few more thoughts after reading your email again...

I don't think an ESRI solution can do much of what you mention out of 
the box aside from creating basic ArcMap MXDs and ArcScene SXDs (used 
with 3D Analyst) that utilize database connections to ArcSDE.  These 
only work in a LAN with access to a database and not web enabled.  Any 
AGS or modeling application would need to be developed. AGS and desktop 
development is tough for people to learn unless they are already 
proficient in NET or Java.  MapServer (and other FOSS apps) can utilize 
languages like PHP, Python, etc.., that are easier to get up to speed 
with, IMO.


I've always pushed the benefits of modular design when looking at 
solutions against the ESRI suite.  Arc* is notorious for 
incompatibilities among versions; this includes proprietary data formats 
(GDB), projects files (MXDs) and of course software.  Development is 
only done via ESRI for their own reasons and all packages go together.  
As we all know, modular allows different components to be developed 
independently.  That means pieces can be enhanced, debugged, patched, 
and replaced without affecting the whole.  As new technologies come out, 
they can easily be put into the workflow.  The architecture can include 
numerous platforms, languages, and packages, depending on whatever the 
user/developer experience is. This argument has gone far with a few 
people I've talked with.


I don't know of any database cataloging system for ESRI.  ArcSDE can 
store spatial metadata for each dataset but that's not a catalog.  GIS 
Portal Toolkit is a metadata catalog but it's not automated in any way, 
and I've never had luck using it.  GPT has been based on ArcIMS but now 
I hear it's moving to AGS.  So, that's something to investigate.

For open source, I would look into deegree (http://www.deegree.org/) for 
many of the OGC services, WMS, WFS-T. WCS, etc...  It does a great job 
as a catalog and map/data server.  It also shouldn't be too hard to 
develop a python script using SQL (for database connections) and 
gdal/ogr (for flat files) to browse through your collections and create 
entries in deegree.  I haven't done it but I recall some past thread on 
the python scripting part.


Training is expensive for any ArcGIS product.  ESRI charges about $490 
per day for instructor led training.  And you would need training on AGS 
and ArcSDE (intro and advanced for both) and several on ArcGIS Desktop 
use, depending on user experience.  ESRI does have some online training 
which are good (and cheap) for entry level to GIS.  Their development 
courses are also only for intro to development.  Although ESRI does have 
plenty of training opportunities, even if expensive, at least they exist.


AGS, ArcIMS, ArcSDE, use Windows services or *nix deamons.  I've always 
had these systems crash for one reason or another.  ArcIMS crashed often 
when people published incorrect metadata (through ArcCatalog) to it's 
metadata services.  In any event, there always needed to be an ESRI 
expert around when the system crashed.  Even a simple app had too many 
GIS-related parts. We could not just leave it to the sys admins once the 
GIS app got going.  MapServer has been easier on the sys admins as it's 
cgi based.  And, the map files are simple text files that anyone can read. 

The only user access system I know if withing ESRI is through ArcSDE.  
That is just a pass through to the database.  All accounts/roles and 
permissions are setup in the database.  The desktop applications do 
respect user credentials when connecting to ArcSDE, whether it's for 
desktop viewing or creating a web map service that will be published 
through AGS.  I don't know if AGS has it's own security system other 
than the admin login for management.


Well, I hope some of this helps...

- John

**************************************************
John Callahan
Geospatial Application Developer
Delaware Geological Survey, University of Delaware
227 Academy St, Newark DE 19716-7501
Tel: (302) 831-3584  Email: john.callahan at udel.edu
http://www.dgs.udel.edu
************************************************** 



Bill Thoen wrote:
> I need to make a case for developing a map and data server using Open  
> Source software such as MapServer, Open Layers, PostgereSQL/PostGIS 
> to  counter a proposal to go with ESRI's solutions. The client who 
> this  would be directed to manages a lot of land parcels on which 
> some  development is planned. As part of the support for this, the 
> object is  to build an Internet-accessible server that maintains about 
> 800Gb of  spatial and tabular data, that can provide interactive maps 
> of the  properties, data downloads of selected areas and layers in 
> shapefile,  AutoCAD and other formats. It also needs to generate 3D 
> surfaces from  dense LiDAR data that's available. It also needs a 
> database cataloging  system that can be searched for data held in the 
> system. Finally, it  needs to provide different access privileges to 
> various personnel who  will be using restricted data sets.
>
> So what I need are some *current* facts about what packages are 
> needed  to do this completely with ESRI software and what it will 
> cost. Have any  of you had to address this 800-lb gorilla problem 
> recently and do you have any advice or facts I can use? I have to  
> present my case to people who don't know much about GIS so I think 
> price  is going to be my best argument. So far, all I've been able to 
> ascertain  is that an Internet license for ArcIMS costs about $9 - 
> $10K per dual  core machine per year. Is that true? And don't you also 
> need ArcSDE for the  database connection, and some Arc3D for surface 
> generation from LiDAR  and copies of ArcGIS all around, and is data 
> downloading even available  through ArcIMS? What functionality comes 
> "out-of-the-box" with ESRI's tools that meets what I've listed above? 
> Is there something in the ESRI stable that can maintain differential, 
> password-protected user access? How much would still have to be 
> developed? And what about training and staff to maintain the system? 
> What's that cost?
>
> If anyone has answers to any of these questions I'd be grateful if you 
> could give me some facts. As it stands I can put those questions out 
> for consideration, but I'd like to know the answers too.
>
> Thanks,
> - Bill Thoen
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