[OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o

Thu Dec 17 09:26:36 PST 2015

Hi,

I wanted to share some thoughts, because I don't want that Maxi's
concerns are buried under lots +1's, that "we are just doing our best
for a successful FOSS4G". Maybe Maxi's initial email was a bit strong
and contained the  "LocationTech" keyword ;-)
I don't think anyone (and for sure not Maxi) wants FOSS4G or OSGeo not
to be successful, and nobody is against marketing.

However doing something with good intent doesn't mean, that it's right,
right?
If there is a privacy policy, we need to respect it and handle personal
data (like email addresses) accordingly. If there is no privacy policy,
we probably should have one, because there are at least a few countries
I know, where not being able to opt-out or receiving unwanted emails can
become a legal issue quickly (and cost money).

I remember a few months ago the discussion about Code of Conduct, where
some people thought, we don't need that, because we're well-educated and
friendly people, respecting each other, etc.. A code of conduct wasn't
something I cared about that time, because maybe it's not common in
countries where I live. But I learned, that it's an important document
for North American countries. And I think the privacy topic is a widely
discussed issue in European countries, and we have some lessons learned
about services/organizations trying to track us.
So that's maybe the reason, why some are not so happy to click an
encrypted link with tracking ID (and whatever else). While I think you
already get tracked, when you open the email and the transparent image
gets loaded.
Speaking as a Japanese citizen, it's even seen as bad practice here to
sent HTML emails, so almost every commercial email is text only with
beautiful ASCII art and is really hard to look at.

While reading this thread I had the following questions actually:
- Is the collected database of email addresses available on request for
every local chapter?
- If a local chapter passes it to some third party organization (in this
case LocationTech, but replace it with any other name), what happens
with these addresses later? Are they now merged with the "LocationTech
Tour" database or the whole Eclipse address pool, etc.?
- If I didn't open my email, because I'm not from North America, will I
be removed from the database and future announcements?

I think most email addresses collected from further events were for
registration purpose. There is no way to register without giving OSGeo
an email address.
And even if we won't harm anyone, we didn't ask those people, if they
would like to opt-in for a newsletter-like service.
So I find it somehow OK (gray-zone) to use the existing address
collection for marketing future global FOSS4G events (it's only once a
year), but you need to understand that FOSS4G NA is a regional event,
and that the emails probably haven't been filtered by region. If we
continue this practice, will then every local FOSS4G be able to spread
the word in the name of OSGeo using a collected address list of the past
10 years?

Personally I think, that as a community we can do much better marketing
than using MailChimp.
Maybe it's a good idea to add an opt-in form to FOSS4G registrations,
where people can sign up for event announcements, even with regional
preferences eventually?

Best regards,
Daniel

On 18/12/15 01:09, Steven Feldman wrote:
> +1,000,000 to what Paul has said
>
> I also passed the FOSS4G 2013 list (which included names for 2011 and
> previous FOSSS4Gs) to the 2014 team in the spirit of fraternal support
> to future FOSS4Gs, I believe that was the right thing to do even
> though we neglected to have specific opt in/out option. No doubt they
> passed the extended list to 2015 and they have in turn shared with
> 2016. This is good not bad.
>
> We need to separate the animus towards LT from the apparent horror at
> the use of a ‘commercial’ service like MailChimp. Those of us who earn
> our living from Open Source Geo need to promote Open Source Geo and
> that means outreach to people who may not be followers of our mailing
> lists, so we need other channels. e-mail marketing is an established
> way of reaching potential FOSS4G participants, it is not evil, it
> probably isn’t spam (even if you haven’t opted in) as long as you
> provide an immediate opt out from further mail (which MailChimp does
> really well).
>
> If LT are willing to allow us access to their large contact list,
> surely that is something we should say thank you for not complain
> about? We might want to ask ourselves why their list is so much larger
> than ours? We have a list of several thousand accumulated from
> previous FOSS4Gs, using MailChimp enables us to clean that list down
> to interested participants very efficiently by providing a simple opt out.
>
> There is no reason why we should not continue to maintain a growing
> list of people who have attended, sponsored or expressed interest in
> OSGeo/FOSS4G. The norm should be that you are opted in by default as a
> result of past interest but every mail provides the option to opt out.
>
> Evangelising Open Source Geo is IMHO immensely worthwhile. To do that
> you need to be a bit pushy while finding the right balance. 
>
> Let’s applaud our advocates, conference organisers and marketeers, not
> moan at them
>
> Apologies if this is a bit ranty (the first draft was way more ranty)
>
> Peace and goodwill to everyone for the holiday season whatever your faith
> ______
> Steven
>
>
>> On 16 Dec 2015, at 20:00, board-request at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:board-request at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>
>> *From: *Paul Ramsey <pramsey at cleverelephant.ca
>> <mailto:pramsey at cleverelephant.ca>>
>> *Subject: **Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] FOSS4GNA - Someone is watching you :-o*
>> *Date: *16 December 2015 at 17:16:15 GMT
>> *To: *Daniel Morissette <dmorissette at mapgears.com
>> <mailto:dmorissette at mapgears.com>>
>> *Cc: *OSGeo Discussions <discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>> <mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org>>
>>
>>
>> Agree w/ Daniel in all ways. We want our events to succeed, no? So we
>> use marketing techniques to do so. Emails and so on. And we track who
>> opens them so we can get better at marketing. Like any other business
>> trying to succeed. Mail chimp is currently convenient, in the past
>> other technologies were convenient (I spammed people in 2007 using a
>> custom perl script, because I am a God Among Men), in the future
>> different technologies will be convenient. But they are all going
>> towards making a good event.
>>
>> Naturally the first targets of marketing the event will be people who
>> have attended past events under the same/similar umbrella. I provided
>> the 2007 attendance list to foss4g events for a number of years until
>> it had grown entirely stale. I felt good about it. I revelled in the
>> goodness of it.
>>
>> I have spammed. I will spam again, in the service of a good cause.
>> That is my weakness. That is my strength.
>>
>> P.
>
>
>
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-- 
Georepublic UG & Georepublic Japan
eMail: daniel.kastl at georepublic.de
Web: https://georepublic.info

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