[OSGeo-Discuss] Code of Conduct in Real Case

Thu Jun 25 05:15:46 PDT 2015

Hi,

even the discussion seems to calm down already (or maybe because of that),
I would like to leave some notes as well:

Yes, I make jokes about everything, even serious stuff. It's my way, how to
deal with difficult topics, where is no single clear answer or the
everything seems to be screwed - joke (even bad joke) is my way how to get
over things.

Application of CoC is difficult topic (and we have been warned about this
at our Board meeting and everybody knew, application policy will have to be
defined), this long e-mail thread should help to us to define our CoC
policy.

Just would like to point out, that only because of the thread, my attention
was brought to Salvator's Dali paintings (I did not know this one), and the
the Korean Band, which certainly is not my cup of tee, but I was definitely
positively influenced by !two! different cultures, just because of that -
thanks to OSGeo community.

It might be not a big thing, but exactly thanks to our openness and
diversity, such cultural exchange is possible and this is why I love this
community and why I'm looking forward to go the Seoul - it will be cultural
shock for me, and will give me other perspective on my place and culture,
as well as visiting Portland did (and believe me, it did a lot). People
used to say, that during communism,  no official censorship was really
needed, because heavy self-censorship was applied by everybody. Therefore
careful approach is needed - on both sides of the community. Therefore I
would like you all to ask to continue talking and clarifying things - it's
nothing everlasting, it's a process. Try to distinguish between "I do not
like it", from "my friend does not like it" and "everybody will not like
it" and "in my country, nobody likes it". Please try to listen too, not
just hammer your truth. Just because you are loud, does not mean, you are
right (speaking not to Andy here, this is my message to the community).

Heaving said that and (personally) I do tend to agree more with what Peter
Baumann is writing (maybe better said: I understand what he is trying to
express using such limited communication method, as an e-mail, seems we
have similar life experience in this topic), we can not forget one thing:
OSGeo is U.S. based NGO, therefore certain rules and "cultural aspects"
common in U.S. should be considered with great care on the global level
IMHO. I do not say, I like it unconditionaly.

Discussion could start in Como already, but we miss one important aspect
there (!probably!) wider community from really different part of the world.
Or do we have numbers, how many non-Europe based attendees will come?

Jachym

st 24. 6. 2015 v 19:17 odesílatel Andy Anderson <aanderson at amherst.edu>
napsal:

>  Ah! Anecdotes! Let me provide one from my personal experience that’s more
> relevant. A female friend of mine attending a school *was* offended by the
> gratuitous insertion of nude pictures in a slide presentation in one of her
> classes. That school was soon thereafter subjected to an investigation for
> sexual harassment by the Office of Civil Rights of the US Department of
> Education, followed by a resolution agreement.
>

> Anecdotal cases aside, in the West these sorts of things are generally
> known to be offensive to many, many women *in the wrong context.* The
> right context would certainly include art museums and art classes. But at a
> GIS conference? Generally speaking, I think potentially offensive items
> must not only be *germane* but *necessary*, and if they aren’t presenters
> should consider alternatives, especially if they are presenting on behalf
> of a larger organization.
>
>  So while the Dali portrait may be germane, I don’t see it as in any way
> necessary. Sanghee writes “I just used that image to stress the importance
> of long distance from the object or sometimes from the too experienced
> ordinary culture.” But there are many, many other images that could be used
> instead to emphasize the same thing; they’re all over the place (see, e.g.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XElUS201fM8 or
> https://www.vat19.com/item/abraham-lincoln-penny-portrait — you could
> even make your own, with a geographic basis).
>
>  Regarding the girl-group picture, Sanghee writes “I believe as symbolic
> icon of wide spread of Korean culture(K-Culture) in/around Asia” — again
> possibly germane to this point, and perhaps by far the best representation
> and therefore necessary, but I have never heard of them and the point would
> be lost on me. A photo of a bowl of kimchi would be more effective in my
> case :-)
>
>  At the very least, I agree with Pedro-Juan Ferrer Matoses when he writes
> “May be a less-dependant-on-someone-explaining-presentation is more
> suitable for being in the landing page of the Conference.” Looks like it
> was a presentation for the 2014 meeting in Bangkok, where I assume the
> context was verbalized, but the Web is a different medium. On general
> principles of effectiveness, I’d recommend putting the context directly
> into the slides. Otherwise their inclusion does seem gratuitous.
>
>  — Andy
>
>  On Jun 24, 2015, at 10:19 AM, Milo van der Linden <milo at dogodigi.net>
> wrote:
>
> Hahaha!
>
> I appreciate this. Maybe we need to add some statistics to your
> political-correctness-o-meter to measure how much of the world population
> is potentially still "on board" at the final slide. This will give a clear
> insight of how many people will come to the event. ;-)
> On Jun 24, 2015 3:41 PM, "Iván Sánchez" <ivan at sanchezortega.es> wrote:
>
>> El Miércoles 24. junio 2015 12.42.40 Charles Schweik escribió:
>> > [...] I was raising the question that those slides could turn some
>> women off
>> > who are considering attending and I think [...]
>>
>> I feel obliged to jump in the thread, because this looks just like a
>> recent
>> case of "the limits of joking" in Spanish media.
>>
>> Imagine this: Person A makes a joke involving person B who was a victim
>> of a
>> terrorist bombing. Person C throws a tantrum and tells the media "I'm
>> sure B
>> finds A's jokes insulting, thus A must resign from his job"[1]. Then,
>> person B
>> jumps in and publicly states that she never felt offended by A's jokes at
>> all[2].
>>
>> [1] http://ccaa.elpais.com/ccaa/2015/06/13/madrid/1434219265_951793.html
>> [2]
>> http://www.larazon.es/opinion/columnistas/mas-fuerte-que-el-odio-AF10047124
>>
>>
>> In other words: Saying "Person A should take this down because I find it
>> offensive" is perfectly OK. Saying "Person A should take this down
>> because it
>> is possibly potentially offensive to a third party" is not OK (and
>> actually
>> erodes the right to freedom of expression).
>>
>>
>> I need to ask for **evidence-based policy** here. There is a big
>> difference
>> between a Dali painting *maybe* turning someone off FOSS4G and a Dali
>> painting
>> *actually* turning someone off FOSS4G.
>>
>>
>>
>> Furthermore, there is such a thing like too much political correctness. I
>> will
>> illustrate *ad absurdum* by turning my own political-correctness-o-meter
>> up to
>> eleven for a second:
>>
>> Sanghee should remove slide 15 because blood sausages are maybe
>> potentially
>> offensive to muslims and vegans.
>>
>> Sanghee should remove slide 17 because the kerning can maybe potentially
>> make
>> the eyes of experience typesetters bleed.
>>
>> Sanghee should remove slides 18 and 19 because they might be potential
>> triggers for agoraphobics.
>>
>> Sanghee should remove slide 22 because it might be potentially insulting
>> to
>> astronomers concerned by light pollution.
>>
>> Sanghee should remove slide 23 because it might be potentially insulting
>> to
>> "grammar nazis".
>>
>> I should remove the previous sentence because someone might potentially
>> find
>> "nazis" offensive.
>>
>> Sanghee should remove slide 25 because it might be potentially insulting
>> to
>> geodesists who know circles don't have a meaning outside of distance-
>> preserving projections (incidentally, these are the same people offended
>> by
>> EPSG:3857 being used everywhere) and find that FOSS4G is not
>> representative of
>> the professionalism required to attend such an event.
>>
>> Sanghee should remove slide 30 because the alignment might be a potential
>> trigger for people with obsessive-compulsive disorder.
>>
>> Sanghee should remove slides 37-42 because they might be potentially
>> offensive
>> to alcoholics and former alcoholics.
>>
>>
>> </rant>
>>
>> --
>> Iván Sánchez Ortega <ivan at sanchezortega.es> <ivan at geonerd.org>
>> <ivan at mazemap.no>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
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