[OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system of gis data with no projection information automatically
Julien Moquet
moquet.julien at gmail.com
Fri Sep 2 13:19:54 PDT 2016
Thank you Dirk,
I was missing that part from Peter answer.
I fully understand that the solution we want to build need to respect
existing services.
And I wasn't suspect how many registry there was !
Regards,
Julien.
2016-09-02 9:38 GMT+02:00 Dirk Frigne <dirk.frigne at geosparc.com>:
> Peter,
> Carl,
>
> Thank you for your valuable input to the discussion,
> For me it is clear, as Peter suggests that improvements should be build on
> top of what exists, and is carefully validated.
>
> Dirk.
>
>
> On 2016-09-02 01:45, Carl Reed wrote:
>
>> Julien -
>>
>> The EPSG is what the OGC considers normative. This is because there are
>> humans in the loop that process requests for new a CRS to be added to
>> the EPSG database. The humans are geodesy experts who validate the
>> "correctness" or validity of a submitted CRS. After review, most
>> submitted CRSs are included in the EPSG database and available via
>> registry interfaces, such as provided by the OGC. Obviously, the process
>> can take a while as the humans are volunteers.
>>
>> The primary problem with a totally open CRS registry is validation. In
>> the 100% situation, anyone can submit and have included a CRS in the
>> registry. At that point, every entry in the registry becomes suspect as
>> to its mathematical correctness and geodetic validity. The problem is
>> exacerbated if anyone can edit existing entries. Then the entire
>> registry becomes suspect and buyer beware - along with potential
>> liability/litigation.
>>
>> So, if there is a decision to move forward within the OSGeo community to
>> provide a CRS registry, I would suggest also providing a governance
>> mechanism and/or process to ensure as best as possible the validity of
>> entries in the registry.
>>
>> My two cents on this topic!
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Carl Reed
>> Long time geo guy
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Julien Moquet <moquet.julien at gmail.com
>> <mailto:moquet.julien at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> How open is the OGC registry ?
>> If data came from EPSG, it will not be really open : they never
>> answer the request I sent.
>> I think it's a human scalability problem (not really maintained).
>>
>> The idea is to make an open registry.
>> May be it can use OGC registry, but projects might want to superseed
>> it when request are not taken into account.
>> Github offer an easy way to fork data, for free.
>>
>> Are you with us so ?
>>
>> Regards,
>> Julien.
>>
>>
>> 2016-09-01 21:29 GMT+02:00 Peter Baumann
>> <p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
>> <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>>:
>>
>> Hi Manfred,
>>
>> On 09/01/2016 05:55 PM, manfred at egger-gis.at
>> <mailto:manfred at egger-gis.at> wrote:
>> > Hello Peter,
>> >
>> > Sorry, I have never heard of this standard.
>>
>> it is not a standard, it is a service offered by OGC (and based
>> on standards).
>>
>> > Is there a existing sample application using this database by
>> OGC? Is there a simple way to get the WKT like:
>> > http://www.epsg-registry.org/
>>
>> the link below yields GML. Other representations can be added -
>> for example, the
>> activist group establishing here might submit WKT
>> representations; better,
>> though, would be a tool for converting from GML as EPSG does
>> updates every now
>> and then. Such a tool might get extended at some time to also
>> deliver JSON
>> representations. Ideally it would do that on the fly whenever a
>> CRS definition
>> is requested. But now I am jumping ahead - obviously there is
>> good room for
>> extension and further services, at the same time avoiding
>> duplication of effort.
>>
>> cheers,
>> Peter
>>
>> PS: note that this service endpoint is mainly for m2m requests,
>> not so much for
>> human inspection. Another facet for discussion.
>>
>> PS2: the underlying service software is open-source (LGPL),
>> might be of
>> interest, too.
>>
>>
>> > To Luís: Maybe before we start with a new datamodel and
>> templates, we should look what solutions exist and collect them
>> in the github project and then decide?
>> >
>> > Best regards,
>> >
>> > Manfred
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: "Peter Baumann" <p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
>> <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>>
>> > Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:20am
>> > To: "Luís de Sousa" <luis.de.sousa at protonmail.ch
>> <mailto:luis.de.sousa at protonmail.ch>>, "manfred at egger-gis.at
>> <mailto:manfred at egger-gis.at>" <manfred at egger-gis.at
>> <mailto:manfred at egger-gis.at>>
>> > Cc: discuss at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org>
>> > Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate
>> system of gis data with no projection information automatically
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > a public registry of all EPSG CRSs and their definitions is
>> provided by OGC
>> > since many years under http://www.opengis.net/ . For example,
>> WGS 84 is
>> > accessible through http://www.opengis.net/def/crs/EPSG/0/4326
>> <http://www.opengis.net/def/crs/EPSG/0/4326> .
>> >
>> > This service is kept in sync with EPSG releases and adds
>> further CRS families,
>> > such as Index CRSs and height CRSs and in future, once
>> definitions are resolved
>> > by OGC, also time ("temporal") CRSs. Arrangement has been made
>> to also host
>> > Planetary CRS definitions of the International Astronomical
>> Union (IAU).
>> >
>> > Repeating (part of) this comprehensive (and authoritative)
>> work may be less
>> > fruitful, but building additional services on top of that
>> might make a lot of
>> > sense indeed.
>> >
>> > my 2 cents,
>> >
>> > Peter
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 08/28/2016 08:39 PM, Luís de Sousa wrote:
>> >> Dear Manfred,
>> >>
>> >> The projection finder project is not entirely clear to me,
>> however, the
>> >> suggestion for a new coordinate system database is indeed
>> pertinent. This was
>> >> referred in other addresses at the conference:
>> spatialreference.org <http://spatialreference.org> has not
>> >> been maintained for several years; parts of proj4 are not, or
>> poorly, maintained.
>> >>
>> >> Besides a reference system database, it would also be quite
>> useful to have a
>> >> projection data base, including mathematical definitions, map
>> sketches of
>> >> their ouput and some clues or guidelines to its
>> implementation (e.g.
>> >> pseudo-code algorithms). This information is today very
>> dispersed in the web.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >>
>> >> Luís
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> -------- Original Message --------
>> >>> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate
>> system of gis data
>> >>> with no projection information automatically
>> >>> Local Time: August 28, 2016 6:05 PM
>> >>> UTC Time: August 28, 2016 4:05 PM
>> >>> From: manfred at egger-gis.at <mailto:manfred at egger-gis.at>
>> >>> To: discuss at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org>
>> >>>
>> >>> Hello,
>> >>>
>> >>> At FOSS4G 2016 in Bonn i talked with Venkatesh Raghavan
>> about my poster
>> >>> presentation "SHAPEFILE PROJECTIONFINDER". URL to poster:
>> >>>
>> http://www.egger-gis.at/app/download/13175253496/POSTER_EGGE
>> R_FOSS4G.pdf?t=1469787116
>> <http://www.egger-gis.at/app/download/13175253496/POSTER_EGG
>> ER_FOSS4G.pdf?t=1469787116>
>> >>>
>> >>> He recommended to start a discussion in this mailing list
>> about the topic
>> >>> mentioned in the mail subject.
>> >>>
>> >>> I also talked in Bonn with Petr Pridal about http://epsg.io.
>> Some days before
>> >>> Bonn i wrote emails to Aaaron Racicot and the mailing list of
>> >>> http://spatialrefrence.org.
>> >>>
>> >>> Please read first carefully on my website, what i plan to do:
>> >>>
>> >>> http://www.egger-gis.at/shapefile-projectionfinder/
>> <http://www.egger-gis.at/shapefile-projectionfinder/>
>> >>>
>> >>> There are two problems to solve before tools like SHAPEFILE
>> PROJECTIONFINDER
>> >>> can be developed as a sustainable solution:
>> >>>
>> >>> 1. Until today there is no stable free service running like
>> >>> www.projfinder.com <http://www.projfinder.com> by Aaron
>> Racicot, which can be used by all developers.
>> >>>
>> >>> 2. Until today there is no open source database which
>> includes all coordinate
>> >>> system with epsg-code and additionally user and esri
>> definded grids.
>> >>>
>> >>> There are open source solutions like:
>> >>>
>> >>> - spatialrefrence.org <http://spatialrefrence.org>
>> >>> - epsg.io <http://epsg.io>
>> >>>
>> >>> But in the detail both solutions have problems to update
>> their database with
>> >>> low costs.
>> >>>
>> >>> Maybe OSGeo can promote a stable service with load balancing
>> on the base of
>> >>> an existing solution like epsg.io <http://epsg.io> including
>> Aarons idea?
>> >>>
>> >>> Maybe organisation like UN, a university or EU (INTERREG)
>> are possible
>> >>> project partners/sponsors for such a solution?
>> >>>
>> >>> The goal is: Tools like SHAPEFILE PROJECTIONFINDER, a
>> Q-GIS-Plugin or a
>> >>> mobile application can use a stable free gis-service updated
>> daily and help
>> >>> gis users to solve projection troubles faster. I think gis
>> users working not
>> >>> everyday with gis will be happy about this solutions?
>> >>>
>> >>> What do you think about my idea?
>> >>>
>> >>> Best regards,
>> >>>
>> >>> Manfred Egger
>> >>>
>> >>> Alois-Schrott-Str. 34
>> >>> 6020 Innsbruck
>> >>> Austria
>> >>>
>> >>> Web: http://egger-gis.at
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Discuss mailing list
>> >>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Discuss at lists.osgeo.org>
>> >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>> <http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> <http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss>
>>
>> --
>> Dr. Peter Baumann
>> - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
>> www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
>> <http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann>
>> mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
>> <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>
>> tel: +49-421-200-3178 <tel:%2B49-421-200-3178>, fax:
>> +49-421-200-493178 <tel:%2B49-421-200-493178>
>> - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
>> www.rasdaman.com <http://www.rasdaman.com>, mail:
>> baumann at rasdaman.com <mailto:baumann at rasdaman.com>
>> tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile:
>> +49-173-5837882 <tel:%2B49-173-5837882>
>> "Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola
>> incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei
>> reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi
>> parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
>>
>>
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>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Carl Reed, PhD
>> Carl Reed and Associates
>>
>> Mobile: 970-402-0284
>>
>> "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will
>> know peace." Jimi Hendrix
>>
>>
>>
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>>
> --
> Yours sincerely,
>
>
> ir. Dirk Frigne
> CEO @geosparc
>
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