[OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate system of gis data with no projection information automatically

Julien Moquet moquet.julien at gmail.com
Fri Sep 2 13:19:54 PDT 2016


Thank you Dirk,

I was missing that part from Peter answer.

I fully understand that the solution we want to build need to respect
existing services.
And I wasn't suspect how many registry there was !

Regards,
Julien.

2016-09-02 9:38 GMT+02:00 Dirk Frigne <dirk.frigne at geosparc.com>:

> Peter,
> Carl,
>
> Thank you for your valuable input to the discussion,
> For me it is clear, as Peter suggests that improvements should be build on
> top of what exists, and is carefully validated.
>
> Dirk.
>
>
> On 2016-09-02 01:45, Carl Reed wrote:
>
>> Julien -
>>
>> The EPSG is what the OGC considers normative. This is because there are
>> humans in the loop that process requests for new a CRS to be added to
>> the EPSG database. The humans are geodesy experts who validate the
>> "correctness" or validity of a submitted CRS. After review, most
>> submitted CRSs are included in the EPSG database and available via
>> registry interfaces, such as provided by the OGC. Obviously, the process
>> can take a while as the humans are volunteers.
>>
>> The primary problem with a totally open CRS registry is validation. In
>> the 100% situation, anyone can submit and have included a CRS in the
>> registry. At that point, every entry in the registry becomes suspect as
>> to its mathematical correctness and geodetic validity. The problem is
>> exacerbated if anyone can edit existing entries. Then the entire
>> registry becomes suspect and buyer beware - along with potential
>> liability/litigation.
>>
>> So, if there is a decision to move forward within the OSGeo community to
>> provide a CRS registry, I would suggest also providing a governance
>> mechanism and/or process to ensure as best as possible the validity of
>> entries in the registry.
>>
>> My two cents on this topic!
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Carl Reed
>> Long time geo guy
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 5:17 PM, Julien Moquet <moquet.julien at gmail.com
>> <mailto:moquet.julien at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi Peter,
>>
>>     How open is the OGC registry ?
>>     If data came from EPSG, it will not be really open : they never
>>     answer the request I sent.
>>     I think it's a human scalability problem (not really maintained).
>>
>>     The idea is to make an open registry.
>>     May be it can use OGC registry, but projects might want to superseed
>>     it when request are not taken into account.
>>     Github offer an easy way to fork data, for free.
>>
>>     Are you with us so ?
>>
>>     Regards,
>>     Julien.
>>
>>
>>     2016-09-01 21:29 GMT+02:00 Peter Baumann
>>     <p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
>>     <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>>:
>>
>>         Hi Manfred,
>>
>>         On 09/01/2016 05:55 PM, manfred at egger-gis.at
>>         <mailto:manfred at egger-gis.at> wrote:
>>         > Hello Peter,
>>         >
>>         > Sorry, I have never heard of this standard.
>>
>>         it is not a standard, it is a service offered by OGC (and based
>>         on standards).
>>
>>         > Is there a existing sample application using this database by
>> OGC? Is there a simple way to get the WKT like:
>>         > http://www.epsg-registry.org/
>>
>>         the link below yields GML. Other representations can be added -
>>         for example, the
>>         activist group establishing here might submit WKT
>>         representations; better,
>>         though, would be a tool for converting from GML as EPSG does
>>         updates every now
>>         and then. Such a tool might get extended at some time to also
>>         deliver JSON
>>         representations. Ideally it would do that on the fly whenever a
>>         CRS definition
>>         is requested. But now I am jumping ahead - obviously there is
>>         good room for
>>         extension and further services, at the same time avoiding
>>         duplication of effort.
>>
>>         cheers,
>>         Peter
>>
>>         PS: note that this service endpoint is mainly for m2m requests,
>>         not so much for
>>         human inspection. Another facet for discussion.
>>
>>         PS2: the underlying service software is open-source (LGPL),
>>         might be of
>>         interest, too.
>>
>>
>>         > To Luí­s: Maybe before we start with a new datamodel and
>>         templates, we should look what solutions exist and collect them
>>         in the github project and then decide?
>>         >
>>         > Best regards,
>>         >
>>         > Manfred
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > -----Original Message-----
>>         > From: "Peter Baumann" <p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
>>         <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>>
>>         > Sent: Thursday, September 1, 2016 3:20am
>>         > To: "Luí­s de Sousa" <luis.de.sousa at protonmail.ch
>>         <mailto:luis.de.sousa at protonmail.ch>>, "manfred at egger-gis.at
>>         <mailto:manfred at egger-gis.at>" <manfred at egger-gis.at
>>         <mailto:manfred at egger-gis.at>>
>>         > Cc: discuss at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org>
>>         > Subject: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate
>>         system of gis data with no projection information automatically
>>         >
>>         > Hi all,
>>         >
>>         > a public registry of all EPSG CRSs and their definitions is
>>         provided by OGC
>>         > since many years under http://www.opengis.net/ . For example,
>>         WGS 84 is
>>         > accessible through http://www.opengis.net/def/crs/EPSG/0/4326
>>         <http://www.opengis.net/def/crs/EPSG/0/4326> .
>>         >
>>         > This service is kept in sync with EPSG releases and adds
>>         further CRS families,
>>         > such as Index CRSs and height CRSs and in future, once
>>         definitions are resolved
>>         > by OGC, also time ("temporal") CRSs. Arrangement has been made
>>         to also host
>>         > Planetary CRS definitions of the International Astronomical
>>         Union (IAU).
>>         >
>>         > Repeating (part of) this comprehensive (and authoritative)
>>         work may be less
>>         > fruitful, but building additional services on top of that
>>         might make a lot of
>>         > sense indeed.
>>         >
>>         > my 2 cents,
>>         >
>>         > Peter
>>         >
>>         >
>>         >
>>         > On 08/28/2016 08:39 PM, Luí­s de Sousa wrote:
>>         >> Dear Manfred,
>>         >>
>>         >> The projection finder project is not entirely clear to me,
>>         however, the
>>         >> suggestion for a new coordinate system database is indeed
>>         pertinent. This was
>>         >> referred in other addresses at the conference:
>>         spatialreference.org <http://spatialreference.org> has not
>>         >> been maintained for several years; parts of proj4 are not, or
>>         poorly, maintained.
>>         >>
>>         >> Besides a reference system database, it would also be quite
>>         useful to have a
>>         >> projection data base, including mathematical definitions, map
>>         sketches of
>>         >> their ouput and some clues or guidelines to its
>>         implementation (e.g.
>>         >> pseudo-code algorithms). This information is today very
>>         dispersed in the web.
>>         >>
>>         >> Regards,
>>         >>
>>         >> Luís
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >>> -------- Original Message --------
>>         >>> Subject: [OSGeo-Discuss] Detect and define the coordinate
>>         system of gis data
>>         >>> with no projection information automatically
>>         >>> Local Time: August 28, 2016 6:05 PM
>>         >>> UTC Time: August 28, 2016 4:05 PM
>>         >>> From: manfred at egger-gis.at <mailto:manfred at egger-gis.at>
>>         >>> To: discuss at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org>
>>         >>>
>>         >>> Hello,
>>         >>>
>>         >>> At FOSS4G 2016 in Bonn i talked with Venkatesh Raghavan
>>         about my poster
>>         >>> presentation "SHAPEFILE PROJECTIONFINDER". URL to poster:
>>         >>>
>>         http://www.egger-gis.at/app/download/13175253496/POSTER_EGGE
>> R_FOSS4G.pdf?t=1469787116
>>         <http://www.egger-gis.at/app/download/13175253496/POSTER_EGG
>> ER_FOSS4G.pdf?t=1469787116>
>>         >>>
>>         >>> He recommended to start a discussion in this mailing list
>>         about the topic
>>         >>> mentioned in the mail subject.
>>         >>>
>>         >>> I also talked in Bonn with Petr Pridal about http://epsg.io.
>>         Some days before
>>         >>> Bonn i wrote emails to Aaaron Racicot and the mailing list of
>>         >>> http://spatialrefrence.org.
>>         >>>
>>         >>> Please read first carefully on my website, what i plan to do:
>>         >>>
>>         >>> http://www.egger-gis.at/shapefile-projectionfinder/
>>         <http://www.egger-gis.at/shapefile-projectionfinder/>
>>         >>>
>>         >>> There are two problems to solve before tools like SHAPEFILE
>>         PROJECTIONFINDER
>>         >>> can be developed as a sustainable solution:
>>         >>>
>>         >>> 1. Until today there is no stable free service running like
>>         >>> www.projfinder.com <http://www.projfinder.com> by Aaron
>>         Racicot, which can be used by all developers.
>>         >>>
>>         >>> 2. Until today there is no open source database which
>>         includes all coordinate
>>         >>> system with epsg-code and additionally user and esri
>>         definded grids.
>>         >>>
>>         >>> There are open source solutions like:
>>         >>>
>>         >>> - spatialrefrence.org <http://spatialrefrence.org>
>>         >>> - epsg.io <http://epsg.io>
>>         >>>
>>         >>> But in the detail both solutions have problems to update
>>         their database with
>>         >>> low costs.
>>         >>>
>>         >>> Maybe OSGeo can promote a stable service with load balancing
>>         on the base of
>>         >>> an existing solution like epsg.io <http://epsg.io> including
>>         Aarons idea?
>>         >>>
>>         >>> Maybe organisation like UN, a university or EU (INTERREG)
>>         are possible
>>         >>> project partners/sponsors for such a solution?
>>         >>>
>>         >>> The goal is: Tools like SHAPEFILE PROJECTIONFINDER, a
>>         Q-GIS-Plugin or a
>>         >>> mobile application can use a stable free gis-service updated
>>         daily and help
>>         >>> gis users to solve projection troubles faster. I think gis
>>         users working not
>>         >>> everyday with gis will be happy about this solutions?
>>         >>>
>>         >>> What do you think about my idea?
>>         >>>
>>         >>> Best regards,
>>         >>>
>>         >>> Manfred Egger
>>         >>>
>>         >>> Alois-Schrott-Str. 34
>>         >>> 6020 Innsbruck
>>         >>> Austria
>>         >>>
>>         >>> Web: http://egger-gis.at
>>         >>>
>>         >>> _______________________________________________
>>         >>> Discuss mailing list
>>         >>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Discuss at lists.osgeo.org>
>>         >>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>         <http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss>
>>         >>
>>         >>
>>         >> _______________________________________________
>>         >> Discuss mailing list
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>>         >> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>         <http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss>
>>
>>         --
>>         Dr. Peter Baumann
>>          - Professor of Computer Science, Jacobs University Bremen
>>            www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann
>>         <http://www.faculty.jacobs-university.de/pbaumann>
>>            mail: p.baumann at jacobs-university.de
>>         <mailto:p.baumann at jacobs-university.de>
>>            tel: +49-421-200-3178 <tel:%2B49-421-200-3178>, fax:
>>         +49-421-200-493178 <tel:%2B49-421-200-493178>
>>          - Executive Director, rasdaman GmbH Bremen (HRB 26793)
>>            www.rasdaman.com <http://www.rasdaman.com>, mail:
>>         baumann at rasdaman.com <mailto:baumann at rasdaman.com>
>>            tel: 0800-rasdaman, fax: 0800-rasdafax, mobile:
>>         +49-173-5837882 <tel:%2B49-173-5837882>
>>         "Si forte in alienas manus oberraverit hec peregrina epistola
>>         incertis ventis dimissa, sed Deo commendata, precamur ut ei
>>         reddatur cui soli destinata, nec preripiat quisquam non sibi
>>         parata." (mail disclaimer, AD 1083)
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
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>>         http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>         <http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss>
>>
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
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>>     <http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Carl Reed, PhD
>> Carl Reed and Associates
>>
>> Mobile: 970-402-0284
>>
>> "When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will
>> know peace." Jimi Hendrix
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
> --
> Yours sincerely,
>
>
> ir. Dirk Frigne
> CEO @geosparc
>
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