[OSGeo-Discuss] regarding Standards on the beta website

Wed Aug 23 14:46:43 PDT 2017

Oh I see ... I kind of think we should trust the projects for a bit (when
listing the standards) and then work with the OGC on getting our OSGeo
Projects certified (so they can have the official stickers). There is such
a large gap of commitment between implementing a standard and being
certified ...

We spoke with the OGC about this kind of thing as part of the sponsors,
partners, friends breakfast meeting.

--
Jody Garnett

On 23 August 2017 at 14:32, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) <
bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us> wrote:

> Jody,
>
> I meant that sometime an application uses the Standards, but doesn’t
> really support them (per OGC specifications).  GeoMoose for example can
> read and write out WMS and WFS via MapServer.  And in it’s latest
> incarnation even read WFS directly.  Some of these capabilities adhere to
> the OGC spec’s for “supports”, but some don’t.
>
>
> On Aug 23, 2017, at 3:52 PM, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Do you mean the difference between clients and servers? I would hope WMS
> support in OpenLayers is clearly distinct from WMS support in MapServer.
>
>
> GeoMoose as an installation, serves up WMS/WFS via MapServer.  It can also
> act as (at least) a WFS client and read from WFS directly.
>
>
> Can you clarify bobb, standards are confusing / intimidating enough as it
> is (especially for projects that implement a wall of them).
>
>
> I’m just trying to caution against using blanket statements of support is
> all, and hopefully present some real world examples to back up my
> statements.
>
>
> Ideally I would like to see projects that are certified by OGC place the
> correct logos on these pages.
>
>
> I guess that’s where I’m going with this, GeoMoose has not gone through
> the process of certifing it’s OGC standards.  They have a very specific
> process to do this too, and based on that I’m saying that GeoMoose for one,
> would not be 100% compliant, as an example.  Some pieces could be though.
>
> So we just say we can use those standards and have support for some of
> them vs having (100%) OGC compliance.
>
> bobb
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
> On 23 August 2017 at 08:47, Basques, Bob (CI-StPaul) <
> bob.basques at ci.stpaul.mn.us> wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> “Support for” and “able to use” should be separate criteria in the OGC
>> capabilities (I think) as well.
>>
>> bobb
>>
>>
>> On Aug 22, 2017, at 1:41 PM, Jeff McKenna <jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> In our case, nesting won't help (if project XXX selects "OGC" as its
>> standards support in the wordpress backend, the reader of our site will
>> assume that all OGC standards are met by project XXX - so yes I agree that
>> the best thing is to delete the single "OGC" option.
>>
>> As for other "standards", we will need to specify that somehow.
>>
>> Possibly we can specify this directly in the description?  For example:
>>
>>  Web Processing Service (WPS)
>>
>>    would become:
>>
>>  OGC: Web Processing Service (WPS)
>>
>>
>> and
>>
>>  Georeferenced Tagged Image File Format (GeoTIFF)
>>
>>     would become:
>>
>>  Other: Web Processing Service (WPS)
>>
>>
>> thoughts?
>>
>> -jeff
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2017-08-22 3:22 PM, Jeff McKenna wrote:
>>
>> Note that the issue here is not nested or not; the issue is that we must
>> be careful with the use of the word "standard" on our new site.  -jeff
>> On 2017-08-22 3:11 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:
>>
>> Never mind, you can have nesting, so OGC can contain WFS, WMS, WCS, etc...
>>
>> --
>> Jody Garnett
>>
>> On 22 August 2017 at 11:09, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com <
>> mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com <jody.garnett at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>     You can click on the number, in this case 11, and see a list of the
>>     projects implementing the OGC standard. I am deleting it now...
>>
>>     --
>>     Jody Garnett
>>
>>     On 22 August 2017 at 10:17, Even Rouault <even.rouault at spatialys.com
>>     <mailto:even.rouault at spatialys.com <even.rouault at spatialys.com>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>         __
>>
>>         On mardi 22 août 2017 14:07:04 CEST Jeff McKenna wrote:
>>
>>         > Many of these don't make any sense to me, if you ask me my
>> opinion.  We
>>
>>         > should be using the list of OGC standards and entering them into
>>
>>         > wordpress, and not allowing editors to edit/add new
>> non-standards.  But
>>
>>         > that is all my own opinion :)  Then we can link to these
>> standards.  As
>>
>>         > of now anyone can create a 'standard' and post it on the beta
>> site,
>>
>>         > seems very odd to me.
>>
>>         Just a remainder that OGC is not the only source of standards.
>>         For example, GeoJSON is IETF RFC 7946 for example (and before
>>         last year, was a community standard). GeoTIFF can also be
>>         considered as a defacto standard, etc.. You have also the ISO
>>         standards for metadata, etc...
>>
>>         Probably a loose definition for standards could be a
>>         specification available somewhere (potentially behind a paywall
>>         like ISO...), and implemented by at least several
>> software/vendors.
>>
>>         Even
>>
>>          >
>>
>>          > Is my opinion here too strong? For now I chose just to edit the
>>
>>          > descriptions for all of these 'standards', valid or not.
>>
>>          >
>>
>>          > What do you prefer?
>>
>>          >
>>
>>          > -jeff
>>
>>          >
>>
>>          > On 2017-08-22 1:59 PM, Jody Garnett wrote:
>>
>>          > > Thanks jeff, I just noticed that work had been done in the
>>         GeoServer
>>
>>          > > meeting :) We also spotted one standard "OGC" which does
>>         not make sense.
>>
>>          > >
>>
>>          > > Do you think it is worthwhile linking to these standards?
>>
>>          > >
>>
>>          > >
>>
>>          > >
>>
>>          > > --
>>
>>          > > Jody Garnett
>>
>>          > >
>>
>>          > > On 22 August 2017 at 09:42, Jeff McKenna
>>         <jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com
>>         <mailto:jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com
>> <jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com>>
>>
>>          > >
>>
>>          > > <mailto:jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com
>> <jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com>
>>         <mailto:jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com
>> <jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com>>>> wrote:
>>
>>          > > Since we have so many website 'editors' (currently 84),
>>         please if
>>
>>          > > you do create a new "standard" (double-quote use is on
>>         purpose, as
>>
>>          > > many of these are not actual standards) when you are
>>         editing your
>>
>>          > > project page, please let me know and I will edit the new
>>         standard
>>
>>          > > and add a description - I have just went through all of these
>>
>>          > > "standards" and set descriptions for each of the 27
>>         "standards".
>>
>>          > >
>>
>>          > > For example:
>>
>>          > >   (WPS)
>>
>>          > >
>>
>>          > >     will now appear on the project pages as:
>>
>>          > >
>>
>>          > >    Web Processing Service (WPS)
>>
>>          > >
>>
>>          > > This consistency makes it much easier to read for new users
>>         to our
>>
>>          > > site.
>>
>>          > >
>>
>>          > > thanks all!
>>
>>          > >
>>
>>          > > -jeff
>>
>>          >
>>
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>>
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>>         --
>>         Spatialys - Geospatial professional services
>>
>>         http://www.spatialys.com
>>
>>
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