[OSGeo-Discuss] Costly FOSS4Gs
Seven (aka Arnulf)
seven at arnulf.us
Mon Oct 16 10:44:14 PDT 2017
Folks,
if we want to compete then we have to play the game. Party is great but
the money is not in the party and fun part. The money sits in large
corps and governments. Folks coming from there are not expected to party
or hang out and have fun. They are expected to see the bleeding edge
technology first hand, learn about the reliability of Open Source and
Free Software licensing and learn about the leading businesses in that
domain. Companies who choose to support FOSS4G with their sponsorship
and come to the global big business FOSS4G industry event. Honor them.
Honor those who organize those events. Consider paying them professional
rates instead of burning them out and then complain that they have left.
(Maybe to the disagreement of some) these kind of events function by
making things shine and excel. This includes a great venue, great
catering, inviting great paid speakers and award great awards at a great
gala dinner. Yawn. How I hate those events! Plus they are costly! Plus I
have to wear my (cat)suit! Yuck! But this is also why I always have worn
a suit when it was required (especially on Star Trek Voyager). No, I do
not consider myself a suit. But I wear one when it is required. There
are aspects of Free Software and Open Source where a suit is a door
opener. Condemn it, door closes.
The good thing is, we do not have to stop anything. We can and we
already are doing both. We have great local events and code sprints and
fun and party and all. Plus we have a one time per year event that is
expensive and attracts the money. Where is the problem? Don't like it?
Then don't go. Cannot afford it? Then promote it so that those who can
afford it go (and indirectly pay your pizza during the fun events). How
cool is that?
Honestly, FOSS4G "global" should stay (or become even more of) an
industry event. What do you think where the (admittedly tiny) OSGeo
budget comes from? It is the surplus generated by well organized,
efficient and shiny (plus fun) FOSS4Gs. This money is used to support
the pizza and coffee for local code sprints. Why on earth would anybody
in his or her right mind jeopardize or even criticize an event that
helps fund everything else we do?
Cheers,
Seven
(Founder, Charter Member, ex Director, President Emeritus of OSGeo and
grumpy old ex Borg drone)
Am 16.10.2017 um 18:55 schrieb Jody Garnett:
> I would like a chance to listen to everyone and avoid creating spits
> in our community, some of the most critical feedback received about
> foss4g affordability has been by companies. Our strength in part comes
> from bridging divides, a foss4g for business would not be a foss4g.
>
> Ravi can I ask if you would like to have a "hangout" or "party" event?
>
> I was surprised to encounter the viewpoint that foss4g it is
> considered an OSGeo party. While we have lots to celebrate, I view
> foss4g as a time when we can best meet our outreach goals. I tend to
> view this as a responsibility - the local organizing committee has
> specific brought us in to knock-the-socks off the local geospatial
> community and show them how amazing open source can be!
>
> As a personal goal I am trying to be more relaxed about viewing OSGeo
> as a party, our community members are amazing should be celebrated and
> celebrating. It is one thing I really appreciated about the slower
> pace of this years foss4g-europe event, think it was the first time I
> got to see Andrea Amine slow down enough to talk to.
>
> Thanks again for bringing interesting questions to this years elections.
>
>
>
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
> On 15 October 2017 at 23:59, Ravi Kumar <manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com
> <mailto:manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi List,
> happy to note that 'FOSS4G being Costly/Unaffordable', is discussed.
> To make it fun, spice is added on the TERM HANGOUT..
>
> May be the next board will have FOSS4G for Business, where in 5*
> comforts that might make business easy for OSGeo.
> Will also have, 'FOSS4G Developers', where in young
> students/Reserchers can have a great conference.
>
> Some fine tuning may make, Say , 1st 2 days 5 Star.. Next two
> affordable.
> But in a world where, 'COST some times means Efficiency', may not,
> 'play ball', with this Idea.
>
> Cheers.. and All the best to the Hopefuls
>
> Ravi Kumar
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Jody Garnett
> <jody.garnett at gmail.com <mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Okay I checked that the report is not published yet (sigh). I
> really appreciated Jeff's answer, and agree that regional
> foss4g events are seeing great success and are much more
> affordable.
>
> To answer your question:
>
> /'Do you agree that FOSS4G is turning out to be a hangout for
> those who can afford it'/..
>
> I have never agreed that FOSS4G is a hangout - I continue to
> view it as our most effective outreach event.
>
> /costs (of participation) are so high that many might not
> afford.. /
> /
> /
> I very much agree with this, indeed I was only able to attend
> the Lausanne event by the kindness of people letting me sleep
> on their hotel floor. I have tried to return the favour each
> time the event took place in my home city.
> /
> /
> /If selected to the board HOW do you wish to correct this.../
>
> This is a tricky one, in part because I do not have to imagine
> - here is my own recommendation from the board at osgeo.org
> <mailto:board at osgeo.org> email list thread: f2f meeting follow
> up
> <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2017-August/010526.html>:
>
> On 21 August 2017 at 11:23, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at
> gmail.com <http://gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> /I saw this thread get into the details of the RFP - for
> that we have/
> /volunteers on the conference committee. My goal as a
> board member is to/
> /work on strategy, as the conference committee knows best
> about the RFP/
> /wording and process./
> /
> /
> /*Q: *Based on the affordability report, and resulting
> discussion, did we as //the board have any direction to
> ask the conference committee to steer in?/
> /
> /
> /My own feedback:/
>
>
> /1) I was pleasantly surprised that the ticket cost of
> foss4g has not //changed significantly over the course of
> the events (indeed our most //expensive event was Sydney
> and our cheapest Korea)./
> /
> /
> /I do not see any guidance to provide here (this was
> surprising to me)./
> /
> /
> /2) Attendance continues to increase limiting appropriate
> venues/
> /
> /
> /I do not see any guidence to provide here, our community
> and event is //growing. I think once we get around 3000
> people we may be forced to settle //down to consider a
> fixed location, but at 1000-2000 we can still move
> it //around./
> /
> /
> /3) regional events are killing it/
> /
> /
> /I do not see any guidence to provide here, our community
> and events is //growing. //The hope is this takes some of
> the strain from the global event, allowing //it to focus
> on outreach and advocacy more./
> /
> /
> /4) hard for students to attend (also journal, etc...)/
> /
> /
> /There was a strong hope that travel grant program could
> help out a lot //here, that would make me sad as this was
> intended to work towards //diversity./
> /
> /
> /While there may be guidance here I am not close enough to
> the academic //world to provide useful direction./
> /
> /
> /5) diversity/
> /
> /
> /The original intention of the travel grant was to bring
> diversity awareness //to our osgeo events (to apply
> regional events are asked to set a diversity //target
> which travel grant can help towards). During foss4g I
> attended a //diversity presentation that advocated
> creating a safe space./
> /
> /
> /*Guidance: *Trial the use of providing a safe space in
> the 2018 bid./
> /
> /
> /Similar recommendations online include:/
> /- make female speakers a priority (not just in selection,
> but before hand/
> /in promotion, one-on-one mentoring etc...)./
> /- providing child care (this helps families attend)/
> /
> /
> /Since these haver not been advocated by members of our
> community I am only //comfortable providing guidance on
> providing a safe space. Perhaps some of //these ideas can
> be tried out at regional conferences first./
> /
> /
> /6) time of year/
> /
> /
> /The events have moved from September/October to August
> placing it in the //way of European holidays. With the
> bulk of our contributors in Europe this //has affected how
> many of our contributors can attend./
> /
> /
> /*Guidance: *Request September / October event (to
> maximize contributors who //can attend)./
> /
> /
> /I understand next years event has plans to turn this into
> a holiday for //families which is a cunning plan./
> /
> /
> /7) travel / accommodation/
> /
> /
> /I would like to avoid prime tourist season to avoid
> asking attendees pay //high airfair and accommodation
> costs. We did not have the number in the //affordability
> report to back this up (but Michael Smith was going to
> look //things up)./
> /
> /
> /*Guidance: *Request September / October event (to avoid
> peak tourist //season)./
>
>
> Followed by:
>
> /> 5) diversity/
>
> /On reflection I am a bit uncomfortable offering guidance
> here - lacking the //needed perspective. I would ask that
> the conference committee consider //diversity as a
> selection criteria, but would hold off on providing
> specific //advice listed above. I recognize that the board
> as a whole is a diverse //body and may be in position to
> offer guidance./
> /
> /
> /I just don't think it is my place either as a board
> member (need to trust //the marketing committee) or as a
> white male (can offer only concern, not //perspective)./
> /
> /
> /Aside: This whole discussion has increased my respect for
> the conference //committee, this is tough stuff. I thank
> those who contribute positively as //part of the
> conference committee./
>
>
>
> The thing to note is that as a board member we can offer
> guidance, or in extreme cases provide a mandate to a group
> that wishes to act. I you asked me "/HOW do you wish to
> correct this" / the answer would be to join the conference
> committe and help out, an ability each of us has as a volunteer.
>
> The conference committee has my trust, and as I understand
> they are deeply aware and concerned about this issue.
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
> On 15 October 2017 at 16:56, Jody Garnett
> <jody.garnett at gmail.com <mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> We actually have solid numbers for this, a report was
> provided at the Boston meeting that kind of answers this
> to my satisfaction.
>
> I was waiting for it to be shared with the membership,
> since your question was one I have been asked repeatedly
> over the last six months, especially at foss4ge.
>
> I would really like you to be able to read the report and
> reach your own conclusion.
>
> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 4:45 PM Ravi Kumar
> <manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com
> <mailto:manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Question (would be Board). 'Do you agree that FOSS4G
> is turning out to be a hangout for those who can
> afford it'.. costs (of participation) are
> so high that many might not afford.. If selected to
> the board HOW do you wish to correct this..
>
> Ravi Kumar
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> --
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
>
>
>
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