[OSGeo-Discuss] Costly FOSS4Gs
Marc Vloemans
marcvloemans1 at gmail.com
Mon Oct 16 12:50:51 PDT 2017
+1
Without businesses no SLA's etc. for professional enduser organisations, who ultimate pay for developers as well as the 'parties'.
(Coming nog from a - black - suit ;-)
Kind regards,
Marc Vloemans
> Op 16 okt. 2017 om 19:44 heeft Seven (aka Arnulf) <seven at arnulf.us> het volgende geschreven:
>
> Folks,
> if we want to compete then we have to play the game. Party is great but the money is not in the party and fun part. The money sits in large corps and governments. Folks coming from there are not expected to party or hang out and have fun. They are expected to see the bleeding edge technology first hand, learn about the reliability of Open Source and Free Software licensing and learn about the leading businesses in that domain. Companies who choose to support FOSS4G with their sponsorship and come to the global big business FOSS4G industry event. Honor them. Honor those who organize those events. Consider paying them professional rates instead of burning them out and then complain that they have left.
> (Maybe to the disagreement of some) these kind of events function by making things shine and excel. This includes a great venue, great catering, inviting great paid speakers and award great awards at a great gala dinner. Yawn. How I hate those events! Plus they are costly! Plus I have to wear my (cat)suit! Yuck! But this is also why I always have worn a suit when it was required (especially on Star Trek Voyager). No, I do not consider myself a suit. But I wear one when it is required. There are aspects of Free Software and Open Source where a suit is a door opener. Condemn it, door closes.
> The good thing is, we do not have to stop anything. We can and we already are doing both. We have great local events and code sprints and fun and party and all. Plus we have a one time per year event that is expensive and attracts the money. Where is the problem? Don't like it? Then don't go. Cannot afford it? Then promote it so that those who can afford it go (and indirectly pay your pizza during the fun events). How cool is that?
> Honestly, FOSS4G "global" should stay (or become even more of) an industry event. What do you think where the (admittedly tiny) OSGeo budget comes from? It is the surplus generated by well organized, efficient and shiny (plus fun) FOSS4Gs. This money is used to support the pizza and coffee for local code sprints. Why on earth would anybody in his or her right mind jeopardize or even criticize an event that helps fund everything else we do?
> Cheers,
> Seven
> (Founder, Charter Member, ex Director, President Emeritus of OSGeo and grumpy old ex Borg drone)
>
>
>> Am 16.10.2017 um 18:55 schrieb Jody Garnett:
>> I would like a chance to listen to everyone and avoid creating spits in our community, some of the most critical feedback received about foss4g affordability has been by companies. Our strength in part comes from bridging divides, a foss4g for business would not be a foss4g.
>>
>> Ravi can I ask if you would like to have a "hangout" or "party" event?
>>
>> I was surprised to encounter the viewpoint that foss4g it is considered an OSGeo party. While we have lots to celebrate, I view foss4g as a time when we can best meet our outreach goals. I tend to view this as a responsibility - the local organizing committee has specific brought us in to knock-the-socks off the local geospatial community and show them how amazing open source can be!
>>
>> As a personal goal I am trying to be more relaxed about viewing OSGeo as a party, our community members are amazing should be celebrated and celebrating. It is one thing I really appreciated about the slower pace of this years foss4g-europe event, think it was the first time I got to see Andrea Amine slow down enough to talk to.
>>
>> Thanks again for bringing interesting questions to this years elections.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jody Garnett
>>
>> On 15 October 2017 at 23:59, Ravi Kumar <manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi List,
>>> happy to note that 'FOSS4G being Costly/Unaffordable', is discussed.
>>> To make it fun, spice is added on the TERM HANGOUT..
>>>
>>> May be the next board will have FOSS4G for Business, where in 5* comforts that might make business easy for OSGeo.
>>> Will also have, 'FOSS4G Developers', where in young students/Reserchers can have a great conference.
>>>
>>> Some fine tuning may make, Say , 1st 2 days 5 Star.. Next two affordable.
>>> But in a world where, 'COST some times means Efficiency', may not, 'play ball', with this Idea.
>>>
>>> Cheers.. and All the best to the Hopefuls
>>>
>>> Ravi Kumar
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Okay I checked that the report is not published yet (sigh). I really appreciated Jeff's answer, and agree that regional foss4g events are seeing great success and are much more affordable.
>>>>
>>>> To answer your question:
>>>>
>>>> 'Do you agree that FOSS4G is turning out to be a hangout for those who can afford it'..
>>>>
>>>> I have never agreed that FOSS4G is a hangout - I continue to view it as our most effective outreach event.
>>>>
>>>> costs (of participation) are so high that many might not afford..
>>>>
>>>> I very much agree with this, indeed I was only able to attend the Lausanne event by the kindness of people letting me sleep on their hotel floor. I have tried to return the favour each time the event took place in my home city.
>>>>
>>>> If selected to the board HOW do you wish to correct this...
>>>>
>>>> This is a tricky one, in part because I do not have to imagine - here is my own recommendation from the board at osgeo.org email list thread: f2f meeting follow up:
>>>>
>>>> On 21 August 2017 at 11:23, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I saw this thread get into the details of the RFP - for that we have
>>>> volunteers on the conference committee. My goal as a board member is to
>>>> work on strategy, as the conference committee knows best about the RFP
>>>> wording and process.
>>>>
>>>> *Q: *Based on the affordability report, and resulting discussion, did we as the board have any direction to ask the conference committee to steer in?
>>>>
>>>> My own feedback:
>>>>
>>>> 1) I was pleasantly surprised that the ticket cost of foss4g has not changed significantly over the course of the events (indeed our most expensive event was Sydney and our cheapest Korea).
>>>>
>>>> I do not see any guidance to provide here (this was surprising to me).
>>>>
>>>> 2) Attendance continues to increase limiting appropriate venues
>>>>
>>>> I do not see any guidence to provide here, our community and event is growing. I think once we get around 3000 people we may be forced to settle down to consider a fixed location, but at 1000-2000 we can still move it around.
>>>>
>>>> 3) regional events are killing it
>>>>
>>>> I do not see any guidence to provide here, our community and events is growing. The hope is this takes some of the strain from the global event, allowing it to focus on outreach and advocacy more.
>>>>
>>>> 4) hard for students to attend (also journal, etc...)
>>>>
>>>> There was a strong hope that travel grant program could help out a lot here, that would make me sad as this was intended to work towards diversity.
>>>>
>>>> While there may be guidance here I am not close enough to the academic world to provide useful direction.
>>>>
>>>> 5) diversity
>>>>
>>>> The original intention of the travel grant was to bring diversity awareness to our osgeo events (to apply regional events are asked to set a diversity target which travel grant can help towards). During foss4g I attended a diversity presentation that advocated creating a safe space.
>>>>
>>>> *Guidance: *Trial the use of providing a safe space in the 2018 bid.
>>>>
>>>> Similar recommendations online include:
>>>> - make female speakers a priority (not just in selection, but before hand
>>>> in promotion, one-on-one mentoring etc...).
>>>> - providing child care (this helps families attend)
>>>>
>>>> Since these haver not been advocated by members of our community I am only comfortable providing guidance on providing a safe space. Perhaps some of these ideas can be tried out at regional conferences first.
>>>>
>>>> 6) time of year
>>>>
>>>> The events have moved from September/October to August placing it in the way of European holidays. With the bulk of our contributors in Europe this has affected how many of our contributors can attend.
>>>>
>>>> *Guidance: *Request September / October event (to maximize contributors who can attend).
>>>>
>>>> I understand next years event has plans to turn this into a holiday for families which is a cunning plan.
>>>>
>>>> 7) travel / accommodation
>>>>
>>>> I would like to avoid prime tourist season to avoid asking attendees pay high airfair and accommodation costs. We did not have the number in the affordability report to back this up (but Michael Smith was going to look things up).
>>>>
>>>> *Guidance: *Request September / October event (to avoid peak tourist season).
>>>>
>>>> Followed by:
>>>>
>>>> > 5) diversity
>>>>
>>>> On reflection I am a bit uncomfortable offering guidance here - lacking the needed perspective. I would ask that the conference committee consider diversity as a selection criteria, but would hold off on providing specific advice listed above. I recognize that the board as a whole is a diverse body and may be in position to offer guidance.
>>>>
>>>> I just don't think it is my place either as a board member (need to trust the marketing committee) or as a white male (can offer only concern, not perspective).
>>>>
>>>> Aside: This whole discussion has increased my respect for the conference committee, this is tough stuff. I thank those who contribute positively as part of the conference committee.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The thing to note is that as a board member we can offer guidance, or in extreme cases provide a mandate to a group that wishes to act. I you asked me "HOW do you wish to correct this" the answer would be to join the conference committe and help out, an ability each of us has as a volunteer.
>>>>
>>>> The conference committee has my trust, and as I understand they are deeply aware and concerned about this issue.
>>>> --
>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>
>>>> On 15 October 2017 at 16:56, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> We actually have solid numbers for this, a report was provided at the Boston meeting that kind of answers this to my satisfaction.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was waiting for it to be shared with the membership, since your question was one I have been asked repeatedly over the last six months, especially at foss4ge.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would really like you to be able to read the report and reach your own conclusion.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 4:45 PM Ravi Kumar <manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Question (would be Board). 'Do you agree that FOSS4G is turning out to be a hangout for those who can afford it'.. costs (of participation) are
>>>>>> so high that many might not afford.. If selected to the board HOW do you wish to correct this..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ravi Kumar
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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