[OSGeo-Discuss] Costly FOSS4Gs

Mon Oct 16 19:51:36 PDT 2017

I am uncomfortable with the five star presentation you outline. FOSS4G is a
open source tech conference that mixes things up in a great creative
melting pot, just like our community. Limiting foss4g to just an industry
or academic event would sell it short.

While I recognize Arnulf’s words, I wish we could find another source of
funds taking pressure off the conference committee and freeing the
organization to use the event more effectively for advocacy.
— -
Ravi I am going to take your second question as wondering what greater role
our charter members can play?

In this case I am not sure, and need to listen to others - what would you
like to see charter members do?

Right now we have an inclusive setup where anyone can join or organization,
take part in a local chapter or a committee. By stepping up as a member,
our organization is open to anyone willing to take on responsibility with
passion and enthusiasm ... with no requirement to be a charter member.

While I like the idea of greater charter member involvement, I like the
idea of member involvement even more.

On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 7:16 PM Ravi Kumar <manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Vicky and all my OSGeo listers and particularly those who are following
> this thread,
> +1 .. OSGeo has blossomed since that meeting in Chicago (2006) attended by
> some, and Markus Netteler.
> You have FOSS4G Choises now.. Pick, that suites your budget, and
> philosophy (If you prefer not to see FOSS4G as 5*)..
>
> We depend on the collective wisdom of the board.. We the charter should
> never tire in Nudging the board with our views.
>
> Another question to Contenders to the Board:
> Wish a day will come when the Charter can play a more important role than
> breaking it's sleep walk, to vote now and then.
>
> Cheers
>
> Ravi Kumar
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 8:38 PM, Vicky Vergara <vicky at georepublic.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Ravi:
>>
>> I had the opportunity to attend and to make a presentation on FOSS4G
>> Korea, afterwards, I also made a protestation on FOSS4G Tokyo. That was on
>> 2015, and was the same year I was also elected to be a charter member on
>> OSGeo. This trip was very educational for me, as I got to know more about
>> OSGeo, with the international event and with the local event.
>>
>> Next year, 2016, even that it would have been great to go to FOSS4G Bonn,
>> given budgets constraints, I opted to go to FOSS4G Asia instead. Lots of
>> students from Asia had participated on OSGeo-GSoC program, and I wanted a
>> close contact with them. The contact was so close that, Rohith Reddy,
>> student from IIIT in Hyderabad and ex-OSGeo-GSoC student, this year acted
>> as mentor and went to the GSoC mentor summit representing OSGeo.
>>
>> This year for FOSS4G Boston, OSGeo, had a travel grant to which I did not
>> apply, I preferred to go to FOSS4G Argentina (Starts next week), but I did
>> registered and attended the code-sprint (using IRC and jitsi for video).
>> About why Argentina, I saw it as an opportunity to communicate the spirit
>> of OSGeo on my mother tongue, further more, I arranged my trip tohave a
>> 22hr stay in Perú, where they are starting to create a local chapter, and I
>> hope to meet some OSGeo member(s).
>>
>> I also consider FOSS4G as an outreach event, and call it: subconsciously,
>> by accident, by preference, I've being going to the small FOSS4G events
>> after the first one where I learned so much. If you think about it, by not
>> going to the international one, and going to the small FOSS4G, I have been
>> spreading the word to the people that can not afford the
>> trip-accommodation-registration costs for the main FOSS4G, and maybe
>> someone else, will use the travel grant, can go learn more about OSGeo on
>> the main international event.
>>
>>
>> Vicky
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Steven Feldman <shfeldman at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ravi
>>>
>>> This could be misinterpreted as some criticism of the volunteers who
>>> have staged outstanding FOSS4G events in the last years or even of the
>>> attendees who are able to afford to attend. I hope that is not the case?
>>>
>>> I’m not going to comment further on the challenges of hosting a 1000
>>> person conference and the associated costs, I think Jeff has summed this up
>>> well. This discussion has gone round the conference, board and discuss
>>> lists for several years. If we want a large event we will have to accept
>>> the costs, the ticket price is typically a lot less than the travel,
>>> accommodation and meal costs that “out of country” visitors incur.
>>>
>>> The answer, IMO, is to encourage the growth of regional and national
>>> FOSS4G to enable lower cost access and to extend our outreach. I have seen
>>> little or no evidence presented to support the idea that local and regional
>>> events need funding from the centre but if a case can be made then the
>>> board should give that consideration and/or delegate that responsibility to
>>> the conference committee
>>>
>>> Let’s celebrate the success of our global events and their attendees who
>>> do a lot more than “hang out”. These events, through their generous
>>> sponsors, provide a lot of the funds for the OSGeo board to use in
>>> outreach, code sprints and other activities
>>> ______
>>> Steven
>>>
>>>
>>> On 16 Oct 2017, at 07:59, Ravi Kumar <manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi List,
>>> happy to note that 'FOSS4G being Costly/Unaffordable', is discussed.
>>> To make it fun, spice is added on the TERM HANGOUT..
>>>
>>> May be the next board will have FOSS4G for Business, where in 5*
>>> comforts that might make business easy for OSGeo.
>>> Will also have, 'FOSS4G Developers', where in young students/Reserchers
>>> can have a great conference.
>>>
>>>  Some fine tuning may make, Say , 1st 2 days 5 Star.. Next two
>>> affordable.
>>> But in a world where, 'COST some times means Efficiency', may not, 'play
>>> ball', with this Idea.
>>>
>>> Cheers.. and All the best to the Hopefuls
>>>
>>> Ravi Kumar
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Okay I checked that the report is not published yet (sigh). I really
>>>> appreciated Jeff's answer, and agree that regional foss4g events are seeing
>>>> great success and are much more affordable.
>>>>
>>>> To answer your question:
>>>>
>>>> *'Do you agree that FOSS4G is turning out to be a hangout for those who
>>>> can afford it'*..
>>>>
>>>> I have never agreed that FOSS4G is a hangout - I continue to view it as
>>>> our most effective outreach event.
>>>>
>>>> *costs (of participation) are  so high that many might not afford.. *
>>>>
>>>> I very much agree with this, indeed I was only able to attend
>>>> the Lausanne event by the kindness of people letting me sleep on their
>>>> hotel floor. I have tried to return the favour each time the event took
>>>> place in my home city.
>>>>
>>>> *If selected to the board HOW do you wish to correct this...*
>>>>
>>>> This is a tricky one, in part because I do not have to imagine - here
>>>> is my own recommendation from the board at osgeo.org email list thread: f2f
>>>> meeting follow up
>>>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2017-August/010526.html>:
>>>>
>>>> On 21 August 2017 at 11:23, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> *I saw this thread get into the details of the RFP - for that we have*
>>>> *volunteers on the conference committee. My goal as a board member is
>>>> to*
>>>> *work on strategy, as the conference committee knows best about the RFP*
>>>> *wording and process.*
>>>>
>>>> **Q: *Based on the affordability report, and resulting discussion, did
>>>> we as **the board have any direction to ask the conference committee
>>>> to steer in?*
>>>>
>>>> *My own feedback:*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *1) I was pleasantly surprised that the ticket cost of foss4g has not **changed
>>>> significantly over the course of the events (indeed our most **expensive
>>>> event was Sydney and our cheapest Korea).*
>>>>
>>>> *I do not see any guidance to provide here (this was surprising to me).*
>>>>
>>>> *2) Attendance continues to increase limiting appropriate venues*
>>>>
>>>> *I do not see any guidence to provide here, our community and event is **growing.
>>>> I think once we get around 3000 people we may be forced to settle **down
>>>> to consider a fixed location, but at 1000-2000 we can still move it *
>>>> *around.*
>>>>
>>>> *3) regional events are killing it*
>>>>
>>>> *I do not see any guidence to provide here, our community and events
>>>> is **growing. **The hope is this takes some of the strain from the
>>>> global event, allowing **it to focus on outreach and advocacy more.*
>>>>
>>>> *4) hard for students to attend (also journal, etc...)*
>>>>
>>>> *There was a strong hope that travel grant program could help out a
>>>> lot **here, that would make me sad as this was intended to work
>>>> towards **diversity.*
>>>>
>>>> *While there may be guidance here I am not close enough to the
>>>> academic **world to provide useful direction.*
>>>>
>>>> *5) diversity*
>>>>
>>>> *The original intention of the travel grant was to bring diversity
>>>> awareness **to our osgeo events (to apply regional events are asked to
>>>> set a diversity **target which travel grant can help towards). During
>>>> foss4g I attended a **diversity presentation that advocated creating a
>>>> safe space.*
>>>>
>>>> **Guidance: *Trial the use of providing a safe space in the 2018 bid.*
>>>>
>>>> *Similar recommendations online include:*
>>>> *- make female speakers a priority (not just in selection, but before
>>>> hand*
>>>> *in promotion, one-on-one mentoring etc...).*
>>>> *- providing child care (this helps families attend)*
>>>>
>>>> *Since these haver not been advocated by members of our community I am
>>>> only **comfortable providing guidance on providing a safe space.
>>>> Perhaps some of **these ideas can be tried out at regional conferences
>>>> first.*
>>>>
>>>> *6) time of year*
>>>>
>>>> *The events have moved from September/October to August placing it in
>>>> the **way of European holidays. With the bulk of our contributors in
>>>> Europe this **has affected how many of our contributors can attend.*
>>>>
>>>> **Guidance: *Request September / October event (to maximize
>>>> contributors who **can attend).*
>>>>
>>>> *I understand next years event has plans to turn this into a holiday
>>>> for **families which is a cunning plan.*
>>>>
>>>> *7) travel / accommodation*
>>>>
>>>> *I would like to avoid prime tourist season to avoid asking attendees
>>>> pay **high airfair and accommodation costs. We did not have the number
>>>> in the **affordability report to back this up (but Michael Smith was
>>>> going to look **things up).*
>>>>
>>>> **Guidance: *Request September / October event (to avoid peak tourist *
>>>> *season).*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Followed by:
>>>>
>>>> *> 5) diversity*
>>>>
>>>> *On reflection I am a bit uncomfortable offering guidance here -
>>>> lacking the **needed perspective. I would ask that the conference
>>>> committee consider **diversity as a selection criteria, but would hold
>>>> off on providing specific **advice listed above. I recognize that the
>>>> board as a whole is a diverse **body and may be in position to offer
>>>> guidance.*
>>>>
>>>> *I just don't think it is my place either as a board member (need to
>>>> trust **the marketing committee) or as a white male (can offer only
>>>> concern, not **perspective).*
>>>>
>>>> *Aside: This whole discussion has increased my respect for the
>>>> conference **committee, this is tough stuff. I thank those who
>>>> contribute positively as **part of the conference committee.*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The thing to note is that as a board member we can offer guidance, or
>>>> in extreme cases provide a mandate to a group that wishes to act. I you
>>>> asked me "*HOW do you wish to correct this" * the answer would be to
>>>> join the conference committe and help out, an ability each of us has as a
>>>> volunteer.
>>>>
>>>> The conference committee has my trust, and as I understand they are
>>>> deeply aware and concerned about this issue.
>>>> --
>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>
>>>> On 15 October 2017 at 16:56, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> We actually have solid numbers for this, a report was provided at the
>>>>> Boston meeting that kind of answers this to my satisfaction.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was waiting for it to be shared with the membership, since your
>>>>> question was one I have been asked repeatedly over the last six months,
>>>>> especially at foss4ge.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would really like you to be able to read the report and reach your
>>>>> own conclusion.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 4:45 PM Ravi Kumar <
>>>>> manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Question  (would be Board).  'Do you agree that FOSS4G is turning out
>>>>>> to be a hangout for those who can afford it'.. costs (of participation) are
>>>>>> so high that many might not afford.. If selected to the board HOW do
>>>>>> you wish to correct this..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ravi Kumar
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
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>>
>> Vicky Vergara
>> Operations Research
>>
>> eMail: vicky at georepublic.de
>> Web: https://georepublic.info
>>
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>
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-- 
--
Jody Garnett
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