[OSGeo-Discuss] Costly FOSS4Gs

Mon Oct 16 19:54:54 PDT 2017

+1 for...... I like the idea of member involvement even more.
Ravi

On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 8:21 AM, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I am uncomfortable with the five star presentation you outline. FOSS4G is
> a open source tech conference that mixes things up in a great creative
> melting pot, just like our community. Limiting foss4g to just an industry
> or academic event would sell it short.
>
> While I recognize Arnulf’s words, I wish we could find another source of
> funds taking pressure off the conference committee and freeing the
> organization to use the event more effectively for advocacy.
> — -
> Ravi I am going to take your second question as wondering what greater
> role our charter members can play?
>
> In this case I am not sure, and need to listen to others - what would you
> like to see charter members do?
>
> Right now we have an inclusive setup where anyone can join or
> organization, take part in a local chapter or a committee. By stepping up
> as a member, our organization is open to anyone willing to take on
> responsibility with passion and enthusiasm ... with no requirement to be a
> charter member.
>
> While I like the idea of greater charter member involvement, I like the
> idea of member involvement even more.
>
> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 7:16 PM Ravi Kumar <manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Vicky and all my OSGeo listers and particularly those who are
>> following this thread,
>> +1 .. OSGeo has blossomed since that meeting in Chicago (2006) attended
>> by some, and Markus Netteler.
>> You have FOSS4G Choises now.. Pick, that suites your budget, and
>> philosophy (If you prefer not to see FOSS4G as 5*)..
>>
>> We depend on the collective wisdom of the board.. We the charter should
>> never tire in Nudging the board with our views.
>>
>> Another question to Contenders to the Board:
>> Wish a day will come when the Charter can play a more important role than
>> breaking it's sleep walk, to vote now and then.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Ravi Kumar
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 8:38 PM, Vicky Vergara <vicky at georepublic.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Ravi:
>>>
>>> I had the opportunity to attend and to make a presentation on FOSS4G
>>> Korea, afterwards, I also made a protestation on FOSS4G Tokyo. That was on
>>> 2015, and was the same year I was also elected to be a charter member on
>>> OSGeo. This trip was very educational for me, as I got to know more about
>>> OSGeo, with the international event and with the local event.
>>>
>>> Next year, 2016, even that it would have been great to go to FOSS4G
>>> Bonn, given budgets constraints, I opted to go to FOSS4G Asia instead. Lots
>>> of students from Asia had participated on OSGeo-GSoC program, and I wanted
>>> a close contact with them. The contact was so close that, Rohith Reddy,
>>> student from IIIT in Hyderabad and ex-OSGeo-GSoC student, this year acted
>>> as mentor and went to the GSoC mentor summit representing OSGeo.
>>>
>>> This year for FOSS4G Boston, OSGeo, had a travel grant to which I did
>>> not apply, I preferred to go to FOSS4G Argentina (Starts next week), but I
>>> did registered and attended the code-sprint (using IRC and jitsi for video).
>>> About why Argentina, I saw it as an opportunity to communicate the
>>> spirit of OSGeo on my mother tongue, further more, I arranged my trip
>>> tohave a 22hr stay in Perú, where they are starting to create a local
>>> chapter, and I hope to meet some OSGeo member(s).
>>>
>>> I also consider FOSS4G as an outreach event, and call it:
>>> subconsciously, by accident, by preference, I've being going to the small
>>> FOSS4G events after the first one where I learned so much. If you think
>>> about it, by not going to the international one, and going to the small
>>> FOSS4G, I have been spreading the word to the people that can not afford
>>> the trip-accommodation-registration costs for the main FOSS4G, and
>>> maybe someone else, will use the travel grant, can go learn more about
>>> OSGeo on the main international event.
>>>
>>>
>>> Vicky
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Steven Feldman <shfeldman at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ravi
>>>>
>>>> This could be misinterpreted as some criticism of the volunteers who
>>>> have staged outstanding FOSS4G events in the last years or even of the
>>>> attendees who are able to afford to attend. I hope that is not the case?
>>>>
>>>> I’m not going to comment further on the challenges of hosting a 1000
>>>> person conference and the associated costs, I think Jeff has summed this up
>>>> well. This discussion has gone round the conference, board and discuss
>>>> lists for several years. If we want a large event we will have to accept
>>>> the costs, the ticket price is typically a lot less than the travel,
>>>> accommodation and meal costs that “out of country” visitors incur.
>>>>
>>>> The answer, IMO, is to encourage the growth of regional and national
>>>> FOSS4G to enable lower cost access and to extend our outreach. I have seen
>>>> little or no evidence presented to support the idea that local and regional
>>>> events need funding from the centre but if a case can be made then the
>>>> board should give that consideration and/or delegate that responsibility to
>>>> the conference committee
>>>>
>>>> Let’s celebrate the success of our global events and their attendees
>>>> who do a lot more than “hang out”. These events, through their generous
>>>> sponsors, provide a lot of the funds for the OSGeo board to use in
>>>> outreach, code sprints and other activities
>>>> ______
>>>> Steven
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 16 Oct 2017, at 07:59, Ravi Kumar <manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi List,
>>>> happy to note that 'FOSS4G being Costly/Unaffordable', is discussed.
>>>> To make it fun, spice is added on the TERM HANGOUT..
>>>>
>>>> May be the next board will have FOSS4G for Business, where in 5*
>>>> comforts that might make business easy for OSGeo.
>>>> Will also have, 'FOSS4G Developers', where in young students/Reserchers
>>>> can have a great conference.
>>>>
>>>>  Some fine tuning may make, Say , 1st 2 days 5 Star.. Next two
>>>> affordable.
>>>> But in a world where, 'COST some times means Efficiency', may not,
>>>> 'play ball', with this Idea.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers.. and All the best to the Hopefuls
>>>>
>>>> Ravi Kumar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Okay I checked that the report is not published yet (sigh). I really
>>>>> appreciated Jeff's answer, and agree that regional foss4g events are seeing
>>>>> great success and are much more affordable.
>>>>>
>>>>> To answer your question:
>>>>>
>>>>> *'Do you agree that FOSS4G is turning out to be a hangout for those
>>>>> who can afford it'*..
>>>>>
>>>>> I have never agreed that FOSS4G is a hangout - I continue to view it
>>>>> as our most effective outreach event.
>>>>>
>>>>> *costs (of participation) are  so high that many might not afford.. *
>>>>>
>>>>> I very much agree with this, indeed I was only able to attend
>>>>> the Lausanne event by the kindness of people letting me sleep on their
>>>>> hotel floor. I have tried to return the favour each time the event took
>>>>> place in my home city.
>>>>>
>>>>> *If selected to the board HOW do you wish to correct this...*
>>>>>
>>>>> This is a tricky one, in part because I do not have to imagine - here
>>>>> is my own recommendation from the board at osgeo.org email list thread: f2f
>>>>> meeting follow up
>>>>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2017-August/010526.html>:
>>>>>
>>>>> On 21 August 2017 at 11:23, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> *I saw this thread get into the details of the RFP - for that we have*
>>>>> *volunteers on the conference committee. My goal as a board member is
>>>>> to*
>>>>> *work on strategy, as the conference committee knows best about the
>>>>> RFP*
>>>>> *wording and process.*
>>>>>
>>>>> **Q: *Based on the affordability report, and resulting discussion, did
>>>>> we as **the board have any direction to ask the conference committee
>>>>> to steer in?*
>>>>>
>>>>> *My own feedback:*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *1) I was pleasantly surprised that the ticket cost of foss4g has not **changed
>>>>> significantly over the course of the events (indeed our most **expensive
>>>>> event was Sydney and our cheapest Korea).*
>>>>>
>>>>> *I do not see any guidance to provide here (this was surprising to
>>>>> me).*
>>>>>
>>>>> *2) Attendance continues to increase limiting appropriate venues*
>>>>>
>>>>> *I do not see any guidence to provide here, our community and event
>>>>> is **growing. I think once we get around 3000 people we may be forced
>>>>> to settle **down to consider a fixed location, but at 1000-2000 we
>>>>> can still move it **around.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *3) regional events are killing it*
>>>>>
>>>>> *I do not see any guidence to provide here, our community and events
>>>>> is **growing. **The hope is this takes some of the strain from the
>>>>> global event, allowing **it to focus on outreach and advocacy more.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *4) hard for students to attend (also journal, etc...)*
>>>>>
>>>>> *There was a strong hope that travel grant program could help out a
>>>>> lot **here, that would make me sad as this was intended to work
>>>>> towards **diversity.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *While there may be guidance here I am not close enough to the
>>>>> academic **world to provide useful direction.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *5) diversity*
>>>>>
>>>>> *The original intention of the travel grant was to bring diversity
>>>>> awareness **to our osgeo events (to apply regional events are asked
>>>>> to set a diversity **target which travel grant can help towards).
>>>>> During foss4g I attended a **diversity presentation that advocated
>>>>> creating a safe space.*
>>>>>
>>>>> **Guidance: *Trial the use of providing a safe space in the 2018 bid.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Similar recommendations online include:*
>>>>> *- make female speakers a priority (not just in selection, but before
>>>>> hand*
>>>>> *in promotion, one-on-one mentoring etc...).*
>>>>> *- providing child care (this helps families attend)*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Since these haver not been advocated by members of our community I am
>>>>> only **comfortable providing guidance on providing a safe space.
>>>>> Perhaps some of **these ideas can be tried out at regional
>>>>> conferences first.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *6) time of year*
>>>>>
>>>>> *The events have moved from September/October to August placing it in
>>>>> the **way of European holidays. With the bulk of our contributors in
>>>>> Europe this **has affected how many of our contributors can attend.*
>>>>>
>>>>> **Guidance: *Request September / October event (to maximize
>>>>> contributors who **can attend).*
>>>>>
>>>>> *I understand next years event has plans to turn this into a holiday
>>>>> for **families which is a cunning plan.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *7) travel / accommodation*
>>>>>
>>>>> *I would like to avoid prime tourist season to avoid asking attendees
>>>>> pay **high airfair and accommodation costs. We did not have the
>>>>> number in the **affordability report to back this up (but Michael
>>>>> Smith was going to look **things up).*
>>>>>
>>>>> **Guidance: *Request September / October event (to avoid peak tourist *
>>>>> *season).*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Followed by:
>>>>>
>>>>> *> 5) diversity*
>>>>>
>>>>> *On reflection I am a bit uncomfortable offering guidance here -
>>>>> lacking the **needed perspective. I would ask that the conference
>>>>> committee consider **diversity as a selection criteria, but would
>>>>> hold off on providing specific **advice listed above. I recognize
>>>>> that the board as a whole is a diverse **body and may be in position
>>>>> to offer guidance.*
>>>>>
>>>>> *I just don't think it is my place either as a board member (need to
>>>>> trust **the marketing committee) or as a white male (can offer only
>>>>> concern, not **perspective).*
>>>>>
>>>>> *Aside: This whole discussion has increased my respect for the
>>>>> conference **committee, this is tough stuff. I thank those who
>>>>> contribute positively as **part of the conference committee.*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing to note is that as a board member we can offer guidance, or
>>>>> in extreme cases provide a mandate to a group that wishes to act. I you
>>>>> asked me "*HOW do you wish to correct this" * the answer would be to
>>>>> join the conference committe and help out, an ability each of us has as a
>>>>> volunteer.
>>>>>
>>>>> The conference committee has my trust, and as I understand they are
>>>>> deeply aware and concerned about this issue.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>>
>>>>> On 15 October 2017 at 16:56, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> We actually have solid numbers for this, a report was provided at the
>>>>>> Boston meeting that kind of answers this to my satisfaction.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was waiting for it to be shared with the membership, since your
>>>>>> question was one I have been asked repeatedly over the last six months,
>>>>>> especially at foss4ge.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would really like you to be able to read the report and reach your
>>>>>> own conclusion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 4:45 PM Ravi Kumar <
>>>>>> manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Question  (would be Board).  'Do you agree that FOSS4G is turning
>>>>>>> out to be a hangout for those who can afford it'.. costs (of participation)
>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>> so high that many might not afford.. If selected to the board HOW do
>>>>>>> you wish to correct this..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ravi Kumar
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
>>> Salzmannstraße 44,
>>> 81739 München, Germany
>>>
>>> Vicky Vergara
>>> Operations Research
>>>
>>> eMail: vicky at georepublic.de
>>> Web: https://georepublic.info
>>>
>>> Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
>>> Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9
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>>>
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>
> --
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
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