[OSGeo-Discuss] Costly FOSS4Gs

Tue Oct 17 00:17:23 PDT 2017

Good question, I think we already realize empowering members by not
reserving activities or responsibilities in our organization. From a
pragmatic standpoint there are more members and with to be inclusive and
grow our organization. Having a low barrier to taking part is a good thing.

Aside:I would like to see charter member renamed to "voting member" (since
charter member means those who signed the original charter forming our
organization).

*So why bother?*
It is impressive that voting members have been recognized by their peers as
being of good character, and have been asked to take on an responsibility,
and importantly have accepted a responsibility. That is a pretty powerful
statement, and show of commitment to our organization.

I would like to respect the commitment, and the voting members accordingly.
One way to do so is to recognize that they have only accepted
responsibility for one activity (which has a fixed time commitment each
year). If we ask any more of these individuals we should not do so casually
- recognize any ideas are over and above what they agreed to when accepting
a nomination.

So while I have some ideas, I would be very hesitant to restrict them to
voting members (and even more hesitant to require voting members to
participate.)

--
Jody Garnett

On 16 October 2017 at 21:20, Ravi Kumar <manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Jody,
>
> "While I like the idea of greater charter member involvement, I like the
> idea of member involvement even more."
>
> How do you wish to realize this.
> Do you think that 'Charter member' vs 'Ordinary Lister/User/Member'.. the
> later merits more..
> THEN
> Why bother and have a special classification as 'Charter Member'...
>
> Cheers
> Ravi Kumar
>
> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 8:21 AM, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I am uncomfortable with the five star presentation you outline. FOSS4G is
>> a open source tech conference that mixes things up in a great creative
>> melting pot, just like our community. Limiting foss4g to just an industry
>> or academic event would sell it short.
>>
>> While I recognize Arnulf’s words, I wish we could find another source of
>> funds taking pressure off the conference committee and freeing the
>> organization to use the event more effectively for advocacy.
>> — -
>> Ravi I am going to take your second question as wondering what greater
>> role our charter members can play?
>>
>> In this case I am not sure, and need to listen to others - what would you
>> like to see charter members do?
>>
>> Right now we have an inclusive setup where anyone can join or
>> organization, take part in a local chapter or a committee. By stepping up
>> as a member, our organization is open to anyone willing to take on
>> responsibility with passion and enthusiasm ... with no requirement to be a
>> charter member.
>>
>> While I like the idea of greater charter member involvement, I like the
>> idea of member involvement even more.
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 7:16 PM Ravi Kumar <manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Vicky and all my OSGeo listers and particularly those who are
>>> following this thread,
>>> +1 .. OSGeo has blossomed since that meeting in Chicago (2006) attended
>>> by some, and Markus Netteler.
>>> You have FOSS4G Choises now.. Pick, that suites your budget, and
>>> philosophy (If you prefer not to see FOSS4G as 5*)..
>>>
>>> We depend on the collective wisdom of the board.. We the charter should
>>> never tire in Nudging the board with our views.
>>>
>>> Another question to Contenders to the Board:
>>> Wish a day will come when the Charter can play a more important role
>>> than breaking it's sleep walk, to vote now and then.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Ravi Kumar
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 8:38 PM, Vicky Vergara <vicky at georepublic.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Ravi:
>>>>
>>>> I had the opportunity to attend and to make a presentation on FOSS4G
>>>> Korea, afterwards, I also made a protestation on FOSS4G Tokyo. That was on
>>>> 2015, and was the same year I was also elected to be a charter member on
>>>> OSGeo. This trip was very educational for me, as I got to know more about
>>>> OSGeo, with the international event and with the local event.
>>>>
>>>> Next year, 2016, even that it would have been great to go to FOSS4G
>>>> Bonn, given budgets constraints, I opted to go to FOSS4G Asia instead. Lots
>>>> of students from Asia had participated on OSGeo-GSoC program, and I wanted
>>>> a close contact with them. The contact was so close that, Rohith Reddy,
>>>> student from IIIT in Hyderabad and ex-OSGeo-GSoC student, this year acted
>>>> as mentor and went to the GSoC mentor summit representing OSGeo.
>>>>
>>>> This year for FOSS4G Boston, OSGeo, had a travel grant to which I did
>>>> not apply, I preferred to go to FOSS4G Argentina (Starts next week), but I
>>>> did registered and attended the code-sprint (using IRC and jitsi for video).
>>>> About why Argentina, I saw it as an opportunity to communicate the
>>>> spirit of OSGeo on my mother tongue, further more, I arranged my trip
>>>> tohave a 22hr stay in Perú, where they are starting to create a local
>>>> chapter, and I hope to meet some OSGeo member(s).
>>>>
>>>> I also consider FOSS4G as an outreach event, and call it:
>>>> subconsciously, by accident, by preference, I've being going to the small
>>>> FOSS4G events after the first one where I learned so much. If you think
>>>> about it, by not going to the international one, and going to the small
>>>> FOSS4G, I have been spreading the word to the people that can not afford
>>>> the trip-accommodation-registration costs for the main FOSS4G, and
>>>> maybe someone else, will use the travel grant, can go learn more about
>>>> OSGeo on the main international event.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Vicky
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Steven Feldman <shfeldman at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ravi
>>>>>
>>>>> This could be misinterpreted as some criticism of the volunteers who
>>>>> have staged outstanding FOSS4G events in the last years or even of the
>>>>> attendees who are able to afford to attend. I hope that is not the case?
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m not going to comment further on the challenges of hosting a 1000
>>>>> person conference and the associated costs, I think Jeff has summed this up
>>>>> well. This discussion has gone round the conference, board and discuss
>>>>> lists for several years. If we want a large event we will have to accept
>>>>> the costs, the ticket price is typically a lot less than the travel,
>>>>> accommodation and meal costs that “out of country” visitors incur.
>>>>>
>>>>> The answer, IMO, is to encourage the growth of regional and national
>>>>> FOSS4G to enable lower cost access and to extend our outreach. I have seen
>>>>> little or no evidence presented to support the idea that local and regional
>>>>> events need funding from the centre but if a case can be made then the
>>>>> board should give that consideration and/or delegate that responsibility to
>>>>> the conference committee
>>>>>
>>>>> Let’s celebrate the success of our global events and their attendees
>>>>> who do a lot more than “hang out”. These events, through their generous
>>>>> sponsors, provide a lot of the funds for the OSGeo board to use in
>>>>> outreach, code sprints and other activities
>>>>> ______
>>>>> Steven
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 16 Oct 2017, at 07:59, Ravi Kumar <manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi List,
>>>>> happy to note that 'FOSS4G being Costly/Unaffordable', is discussed.
>>>>> To make it fun, spice is added on the TERM HANGOUT..
>>>>>
>>>>> May be the next board will have FOSS4G for Business, where in 5*
>>>>> comforts that might make business easy for OSGeo.
>>>>> Will also have, 'FOSS4G Developers', where in young
>>>>> students/Reserchers can have a great conference.
>>>>>
>>>>>  Some fine tuning may make, Say , 1st 2 days 5 Star.. Next two
>>>>> affordable.
>>>>> But in a world where, 'COST some times means Efficiency', may not,
>>>>> 'play ball', with this Idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers.. and All the best to the Hopefuls
>>>>>
>>>>> Ravi Kumar
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Okay I checked that the report is not published yet (sigh). I really
>>>>>> appreciated Jeff's answer, and agree that regional foss4g events are seeing
>>>>>> great success and are much more affordable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To answer your question:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *'Do you agree that FOSS4G is turning out to be a hangout for those
>>>>>> who can afford it'*..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have never agreed that FOSS4G is a hangout - I continue to view it
>>>>>> as our most effective outreach event.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *costs (of participation) are  so high that many might not afford.. *
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I very much agree with this, indeed I was only able to attend
>>>>>> the Lausanne event by the kindness of people letting me sleep on their
>>>>>> hotel floor. I have tried to return the favour each time the event took
>>>>>> place in my home city.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *If selected to the board HOW do you wish to correct this...*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a tricky one, in part because I do not have to imagine - here
>>>>>> is my own recommendation from the board at osgeo.org email list thread: f2f
>>>>>> meeting follow up
>>>>>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2017-August/010526.html>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 21 August 2017 at 11:23, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I saw this thread get into the details of the RFP - for that we have*
>>>>>> *volunteers on the conference committee. My goal as a board member is
>>>>>> to*
>>>>>> *work on strategy, as the conference committee knows best about the
>>>>>> RFP*
>>>>>> *wording and process.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Q: *Based on the affordability report, and resulting discussion,
>>>>>> did we as **the board have any direction to ask the conference
>>>>>> committee to steer in?*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *My own feedback:*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *1) I was pleasantly surprised that the ticket cost of foss4g has
>>>>>> not **changed significantly over the course of the events (indeed
>>>>>> our most **expensive event was Sydney and our cheapest Korea).*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I do not see any guidance to provide here (this was surprising to
>>>>>> me).*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *2) Attendance continues to increase limiting appropriate venues*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I do not see any guidence to provide here, our community and event
>>>>>> is **growing. I think once we get around 3000 people we may be
>>>>>> forced to settle **down to consider a fixed location, but at
>>>>>> 1000-2000 we can still move it **around.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *3) regional events are killing it*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I do not see any guidence to provide here, our community and events
>>>>>> is **growing. **The hope is this takes some of the strain from the
>>>>>> global event, allowing **it to focus on outreach and advocacy more.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *4) hard for students to attend (also journal, etc...)*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *There was a strong hope that travel grant program could help out a
>>>>>> lot **here, that would make me sad as this was intended to work
>>>>>> towards **diversity.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *While there may be guidance here I am not close enough to the
>>>>>> academic **world to provide useful direction.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *5) diversity*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *The original intention of the travel grant was to bring diversity
>>>>>> awareness **to our osgeo events (to apply regional events are asked
>>>>>> to set a diversity **target which travel grant can help towards).
>>>>>> During foss4g I attended a **diversity presentation that advocated
>>>>>> creating a safe space.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Guidance: *Trial the use of providing a safe space in the 2018 bid.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Similar recommendations online include:*
>>>>>> *- make female speakers a priority (not just in selection, but before
>>>>>> hand*
>>>>>> *in promotion, one-on-one mentoring etc...).*
>>>>>> *- providing child care (this helps families attend)*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Since these haver not been advocated by members of our community I
>>>>>> am only **comfortable providing guidance on providing a safe space.
>>>>>> Perhaps some of **these ideas can be tried out at regional
>>>>>> conferences first.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *6) time of year*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *The events have moved from September/October to August placing it in
>>>>>> the **way of European holidays. With the bulk of our contributors in
>>>>>> Europe this **has affected how many of our contributors can attend.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Guidance: *Request September / October event (to maximize
>>>>>> contributors who **can attend).*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I understand next years event has plans to turn this into a holiday
>>>>>> for **families which is a cunning plan.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *7) travel / accommodation*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I would like to avoid prime tourist season to avoid asking attendees
>>>>>> pay **high airfair and accommodation costs. We did not have the
>>>>>> number in the **affordability report to back this up (but Michael
>>>>>> Smith was going to look **things up).*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Guidance: *Request September / October event (to avoid peak
>>>>>> tourist **season).*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Followed by:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *> 5) diversity*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *On reflection I am a bit uncomfortable offering guidance here -
>>>>>> lacking the **needed perspective. I would ask that the conference
>>>>>> committee consider **diversity as a selection criteria, but would
>>>>>> hold off on providing specific **advice listed above. I recognize
>>>>>> that the board as a whole is a diverse **body and may be in position
>>>>>> to offer guidance.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *I just don't think it is my place either as a board member (need to
>>>>>> trust **the marketing committee) or as a white male (can offer only
>>>>>> concern, not **perspective).*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *Aside: This whole discussion has increased my respect for the
>>>>>> conference **committee, this is tough stuff. I thank those who
>>>>>> contribute positively as **part of the conference committee.*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The thing to note is that as a board member we can offer guidance, or
>>>>>> in extreme cases provide a mandate to a group that wishes to act. I you
>>>>>> asked me "*HOW do you wish to correct this" * the answer would be to
>>>>>> join the conference committe and help out, an ability each of us has as a
>>>>>> volunteer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The conference committee has my trust, and as I understand they are
>>>>>> deeply aware and concerned about this issue.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 15 October 2017 at 16:56, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We actually have solid numbers for this, a report was provided at
>>>>>>> the Boston meeting that kind of answers this to my satisfaction.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was waiting for it to be shared with the membership, since your
>>>>>>> question was one I have been asked repeatedly over the last six months,
>>>>>>> especially at foss4ge.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would really like you to be able to read the report and reach your
>>>>>>> own conclusion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 4:45 PM Ravi Kumar <
>>>>>>> manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Question  (would be Board).  'Do you agree that FOSS4G is turning
>>>>>>>> out to be a hangout for those who can afford it'.. costs (of participation)
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> so high that many might not afford.. If selected to the board HOW
>>>>>>>> do you wish to correct this..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ravi Kumar
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
>>>> Salzmannstraße 44,
>>>> 81739 München, Germany
>>>>
>>>> Vicky Vergara
>>>> Operations Research
>>>>
>>>> eMail: vicky at georepublic.de
>>>> Web: https://georepublic.info
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
>>>> Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9
>>>>
>>>> Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
>>>> CEO: Daniel Kastl
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
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>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Discuss mailing list
>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>> --
>> --
>> Jody Garnett
>>
>
>
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> Discuss mailing list
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