[OSGeo-Discuss] Costly FOSS4Gs

[Ravi Kumar]

"I would like to see charter member renamed to "voting member" (since
charter member means those who signed the original charter forming our
organization)"

That way things become Clear.. But I doubt if any charter member is not
aware of it, that their responsibility is (simply) to Vote. And that all
the peer reviewed Charter members, and their views at the moment are like a
storm in the tea-cup.. the Discuss-List.



On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Good question, I think we already realize empowering members by not
> reserving activities or responsibilities in our organization. From a
> pragmatic standpoint there are more members and with to be inclusive and
> grow our organization. Having a low barrier to taking part is a good thing.
>
> Aside:I would like to see charter member renamed to "voting member" (since
> charter member means those who signed the original charter forming our
> organization).
>
>
> *So why bother?*
> It is impressive that voting members have been recognized by their peers
> as being of good character, and have been asked to take on an
> responsibility, and importantly have accepted a responsibility. That is a
> pretty powerful statement, and show of commitment to our organization.
>
> I would like to respect the commitment, and the voting members
> accordingly. One way to do so is to recognize that they have only accepted
> responsibility for one activity (which has a fixed time commitment each
> year). If we ask any more of these individuals we should not do so casually
> - recognize any ideas are over and above what they agreed to when accepting
> a nomination.
>
> So while I have some ideas, I would be very hesitant to restrict them to
> voting members (and even more hesitant to require voting members to
> participate.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
> On 16 October 2017 at 21:20, Ravi Kumar <manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Jody,
>>
>> "While I like the idea of greater charter member involvement, I like the
>> idea of member involvement even more."
>>
>> How do you wish to realize this.
>> Do you think that 'Charter member' vs 'Ordinary Lister/User/Member'.. the
>> later merits more..
>> THEN
>> Why bother and have a special classification as 'Charter Member'...
>>
>> Cheers
>> Ravi Kumar
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 17, 2017 at 8:21 AM, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am uncomfortable with the five star presentation you outline. FOSS4G
>>> is a open source tech conference that mixes things up in a great creative
>>> melting pot, just like our community. Limiting foss4g to just an industry
>>> or academic event would sell it short.
>>>
>>> While I recognize Arnulf’s words, I wish we could find another source of
>>> funds taking pressure off the conference committee and freeing the
>>> organization to use the event more effectively for advocacy.
>>> — -
>>> Ravi I am going to take your second question as wondering what greater
>>> role our charter members can play?
>>>
>>> In this case I am not sure, and need to listen to others - what would
>>> you like to see charter members do?
>>>
>>> Right now we have an inclusive setup where anyone can join or
>>> organization, take part in a local chapter or a committee. By stepping up
>>> as a member, our organization is open to anyone willing to take on
>>> responsibility with passion and enthusiasm ... with no requirement to be a
>>> charter member.
>>>
>>> While I like the idea of greater charter member involvement, I like the
>>> idea of member involvement even more.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 7:16 PM Ravi Kumar <
>>> manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Vicky and all my OSGeo listers and particularly those who are
>>>> following this thread,
>>>> +1 .. OSGeo has blossomed since that meeting in Chicago (2006) attended
>>>> by some, and Markus Netteler.
>>>> You have FOSS4G Choises now.. Pick, that suites your budget, and
>>>> philosophy (If you prefer not to see FOSS4G as 5*)..
>>>>
>>>> We depend on the collective wisdom of the board.. We the charter should
>>>> never tire in Nudging the board with our views.
>>>>
>>>> Another question to Contenders to the Board:
>>>> Wish a day will come when the Charter can play a more important role
>>>> than breaking it's sleep walk, to vote now and then.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>> Ravi Kumar
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 8:38 PM, Vicky Vergara <vicky at georepublic.de>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello Ravi:
>>>>>
>>>>> I had the opportunity to attend and to make a presentation on FOSS4G
>>>>> Korea, afterwards, I also made a protestation on FOSS4G Tokyo. That was on
>>>>> 2015, and was the same year I was also elected to be a charter member on
>>>>> OSGeo. This trip was very educational for me, as I got to know more about
>>>>> OSGeo, with the international event and with the local event.
>>>>>
>>>>> Next year, 2016, even that it would have been great to go to FOSS4G
>>>>> Bonn, given budgets constraints, I opted to go to FOSS4G Asia instead. Lots
>>>>> of students from Asia had participated on OSGeo-GSoC program, and I wanted
>>>>> a close contact with them. The contact was so close that, Rohith Reddy,
>>>>> student from IIIT in Hyderabad and ex-OSGeo-GSoC student, this year acted
>>>>> as mentor and went to the GSoC mentor summit representing OSGeo.
>>>>>
>>>>> This year for FOSS4G Boston, OSGeo, had a travel grant to which I did
>>>>> not apply, I preferred to go to FOSS4G Argentina (Starts next week), but I
>>>>> did registered and attended the code-sprint (using IRC and jitsi for video).
>>>>> About why Argentina, I saw it as an opportunity to communicate the
>>>>> spirit of OSGeo on my mother tongue, further more, I arranged my trip
>>>>> tohave a 22hr stay in Perú, where they are starting to create a local
>>>>> chapter, and I hope to meet some OSGeo member(s).
>>>>>
>>>>> I also consider FOSS4G as an outreach event, and call it:
>>>>> subconsciously, by accident, by preference, I've being going to the small
>>>>> FOSS4G events after the first one where I learned so much. If you think
>>>>> about it, by not going to the international one, and going to the small
>>>>> FOSS4G, I have been spreading the word to the people that can not afford
>>>>> the trip-accommodation-registration costs for the main FOSS4G, and
>>>>> maybe someone else, will use the travel grant, can go learn more about
>>>>> OSGeo on the main international event.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Vicky
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Steven Feldman <shfeldman at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Ravi
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This could be misinterpreted as some criticism of the volunteers who
>>>>>> have staged outstanding FOSS4G events in the last years or even of the
>>>>>> attendees who are able to afford to attend. I hope that is not the case?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m not going to comment further on the challenges of hosting a 1000
>>>>>> person conference and the associated costs, I think Jeff has summed this up
>>>>>> well. This discussion has gone round the conference, board and discuss
>>>>>> lists for several years. If we want a large event we will have to accept
>>>>>> the costs, the ticket price is typically a lot less than the travel,
>>>>>> accommodation and meal costs that “out of country” visitors incur.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The answer, IMO, is to encourage the growth of regional and national
>>>>>> FOSS4G to enable lower cost access and to extend our outreach. I have seen
>>>>>> little or no evidence presented to support the idea that local and regional
>>>>>> events need funding from the centre but if a case can be made then the
>>>>>> board should give that consideration and/or delegate that responsibility to
>>>>>> the conference committee
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let’s celebrate the success of our global events and their attendees
>>>>>> who do a lot more than “hang out”. These events, through their generous
>>>>>> sponsors, provide a lot of the funds for the OSGeo board to use in
>>>>>> outreach, code sprints and other activities
>>>>>> ______
>>>>>> Steven
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 16 Oct 2017, at 07:59, Ravi Kumar <manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi List,
>>>>>> happy to note that 'FOSS4G being Costly/Unaffordable', is discussed.
>>>>>> To make it fun, spice is added on the TERM HANGOUT..
>>>>>>
>>>>>> May be the next board will have FOSS4G for Business, where in 5*
>>>>>> comforts that might make business easy for OSGeo.
>>>>>> Will also have, 'FOSS4G Developers', where in young
>>>>>> students/Reserchers can have a great conference.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Some fine tuning may make, Say , 1st 2 days 5 Star.. Next two
>>>>>> affordable.
>>>>>> But in a world where, 'COST some times means Efficiency', may not,
>>>>>> 'play ball', with this Idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers.. and All the best to the Hopefuls
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ravi Kumar
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 16, 2017 at 11:19 AM, Jody Garnett <
>>>>>> jody.garnett at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Okay I checked that the report is not published yet (sigh). I really
>>>>>>> appreciated Jeff's answer, and agree that regional foss4g events are seeing
>>>>>>> great success and are much more affordable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To answer your question:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *'Do you agree that FOSS4G is turning out to be a hangout for those
>>>>>>> who can afford it'*..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have never agreed that FOSS4G is a hangout - I continue to view it
>>>>>>> as our most effective outreach event.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *costs (of participation) are  so high that many might not afford.. *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I very much agree with this, indeed I was only able to attend
>>>>>>> the Lausanne event by the kindness of people letting me sleep on their
>>>>>>> hotel floor. I have tried to return the favour each time the event took
>>>>>>> place in my home city.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *If selected to the board HOW do you wish to correct this...*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is a tricky one, in part because I do not have to imagine -
>>>>>>> here is my own recommendation from the board at osgeo.org email list
>>>>>>> thread: f2f meeting follow up
>>>>>>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/board/2017-August/010526.html>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 21 August 2017 at 11:23, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I saw this thread get into the details of the RFP - for that we
>>>>>>> have*
>>>>>>> *volunteers on the conference committee. My goal as a board member
>>>>>>> is to*
>>>>>>> *work on strategy, as the conference committee knows best about the
>>>>>>> RFP*
>>>>>>> *wording and process.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Q: *Based on the affordability report, and resulting discussion,
>>>>>>> did we as **the board have any direction to ask the conference
>>>>>>> committee to steer in?*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *My own feedback:*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *1) I was pleasantly surprised that the ticket cost of foss4g has
>>>>>>> not **changed significantly over the course of the events (indeed
>>>>>>> our most **expensive event was Sydney and our cheapest Korea).*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I do not see any guidance to provide here (this was surprising to
>>>>>>> me).*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *2) Attendance continues to increase limiting appropriate venues*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I do not see any guidence to provide here, our community and event
>>>>>>> is **growing. I think once we get around 3000 people we may be
>>>>>>> forced to settle **down to consider a fixed location, but at
>>>>>>> 1000-2000 we can still move it **around.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *3) regional events are killing it*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I do not see any guidence to provide here, our community and events
>>>>>>> is **growing. **The hope is this takes some of the strain from the
>>>>>>> global event, allowing **it to focus on outreach and advocacy more.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *4) hard for students to attend (also journal, etc...)*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *There was a strong hope that travel grant program could help out a
>>>>>>> lot **here, that would make me sad as this was intended to work
>>>>>>> towards **diversity.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *While there may be guidance here I am not close enough to the
>>>>>>> academic **world to provide useful direction.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *5) diversity*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *The original intention of the travel grant was to bring diversity
>>>>>>> awareness **to our osgeo events (to apply regional events are asked
>>>>>>> to set a diversity **target which travel grant can help towards).
>>>>>>> During foss4g I attended a **diversity presentation that advocated
>>>>>>> creating a safe space.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Guidance: *Trial the use of providing a safe space in the 2018
>>>>>>> bid.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Similar recommendations online include:*
>>>>>>> *- make female speakers a priority (not just in selection, but
>>>>>>> before hand*
>>>>>>> *in promotion, one-on-one mentoring etc...).*
>>>>>>> *- providing child care (this helps families attend)*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Since these haver not been advocated by members of our community I
>>>>>>> am only **comfortable providing guidance on providing a safe space.
>>>>>>> Perhaps some of **these ideas can be tried out at regional
>>>>>>> conferences first.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *6) time of year*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *The events have moved from September/October to August placing it
>>>>>>> in the **way of European holidays. With the bulk of our
>>>>>>> contributors in Europe this **has affected how many of our
>>>>>>> contributors can attend.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Guidance: *Request September / October event (to maximize
>>>>>>> contributors who **can attend).*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I understand next years event has plans to turn this into a holiday
>>>>>>> for **families which is a cunning plan.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *7) travel / accommodation*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I would like to avoid prime tourist season to avoid asking
>>>>>>> attendees pay **high airfair and accommodation costs. We did not
>>>>>>> have the number in the **affordability report to back this up (but
>>>>>>> Michael Smith was going to look **things up).*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Guidance: *Request September / October event (to avoid peak
>>>>>>> tourist **season).*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Followed by:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *> 5) diversity*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *On reflection I am a bit uncomfortable offering guidance here -
>>>>>>> lacking the **needed perspective. I would ask that the conference
>>>>>>> committee consider **diversity as a selection criteria, but would
>>>>>>> hold off on providing specific **advice listed above. I recognize
>>>>>>> that the board as a whole is a diverse **body and may be in
>>>>>>> position to offer guidance.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *I just don't think it is my place either as a board member (need to
>>>>>>> trust **the marketing committee) or as a white male (can offer only
>>>>>>> concern, not **perspective).*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *Aside: This whole discussion has increased my respect for the
>>>>>>> conference **committee, this is tough stuff. I thank those who
>>>>>>> contribute positively as **part of the conference committee.*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The thing to note is that as a board member we can offer guidance,
>>>>>>> or in extreme cases provide a mandate to a group that wishes to act. I you
>>>>>>> asked me "*HOW do you wish to correct this" * the answer would be
>>>>>>> to join the conference committe and help out, an ability each of us has as
>>>>>>> a volunteer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The conference committee has my trust, and as I understand they are
>>>>>>> deeply aware and concerned about this issue.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 15 October 2017 at 16:56, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We actually have solid numbers for this, a report was provided at
>>>>>>>> the Boston meeting that kind of answers this to my satisfaction.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was waiting for it to be shared with the membership, since your
>>>>>>>> question was one I have been asked repeatedly over the last six months,
>>>>>>>> especially at foss4ge.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I would really like you to be able to read the report and reach
>>>>>>>> your own conclusion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 4:45 PM Ravi Kumar <
>>>>>>>> manarajahmundry2015 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Question  (would be Board).  'Do you agree that FOSS4G is turning
>>>>>>>>> out to be a hangout for those who can afford it'.. costs (of participation)
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> so high that many might not afford.. If selected to the board HOW
>>>>>>>>> do you wish to correct this..
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ravi Kumar
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Jody Garnett
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Georepublic UG (haftungsbeschränkt)
>>>>> Salzmannstraße 44,
>>>>> 81739 München, Germany
>>>>>
>>>>> Vicky Vergara
>>>>> Operations Research
>>>>>
>>>>> eMail: vicky at georepublic.de
>>>>> Web: https://georepublic.info
>>>>>
>>>>> Tel: +49 (089) 4161 7698-1
>>>>> Fax: +49 (089) 4161 7698-9
>>>>>
>>>>> Commercial register: Amtsgericht München, HRB 181428
>>>>> CEO: Daniel Kastl
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Discuss mailing list
>>>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> Jody Garnett
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Discuss mailing list
>> Discuss at lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss
>>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/attachments/20171017/0bf5b9a3/attachment.html>