[OSGeo-Discuss] R: [Marketing] Proprietary GIS on our OSGeo website

Wed Sep 20 12:44:18 PDT 2017

Jody this is not respectful of me and the community.  Might I know why the people working for the project want ABSOLUTELY to keep the names and links to proprietary software on our open source software website?

Anyhow, I think that the Board can express ourselves about this point. I remember you  that we were voted and that the people who voted me don't want those names and links. I'm speaking on behalf of many. In case, we will ask the whole community to express ourselves about that.
I want to apologise with the people working at the website if my tone could have seen as rude. Who knows me, knows that I'm not a native speaker and sometimes my words seem to be worse than what I have in mind. I want to claridy that I appreciate a lot their work ( I suppose they appreciate my work all the same) and I thank them with all my hearth.  But absolutely I don't agree with this choice and I explained you also the reasons.
Best
Maria

Inviato dal mio dispositivo Samsung

-------- Messaggio originale --------
Da: Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
Data: 20/09/17 21:24 (GMT+01:00)
A: Maria Antonia Brovelli <maria.brovelli at polimi.it>
Cc: Margherita Di Leo <diregola at gmail.com>, Helmut Kudrnovsky <hellik at web.de>, OSGeo Discussions <discuss at lists.osgeo.org>, OSGeo-Marketing <marketing at lists.osgeo.org>
Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Marketing] Proprietary GIS on our OSGeo website

Maria your request is at odds with the goal of this website.

Already I have private chats about participants being discouraged. I do not think that using the board to control the process is a productive or respectful of those working on the project.

Please reconsider how to interactive positively with the community.
On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 12:10 PM Maria Antonia Brovelli <maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it>> wrote:
If somebody is interested in knowing more about foss4g, we are here. If somebody, using whichever proprietary software,  wants to have more pieces of information they can contact us and we will provide them with all the information they need.
Contacting and working with us is a definitely different attitude than simply  downloading and using. And we are interested in the first type of people because we want our community growing.
Therefore no needs at all to put the names and links to proprietary software.
Please again remote them.
I'll open a loomio vote of the Board about that.
Have a good evening
Maria

Inviato dal mio dispositivo Samsung

-------- Messaggio originale --------
Da: Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com<mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>>
Data: 20/09/17 20:40 (GMT+01:00)
A: Maria Antonia Brovelli <maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it>>
Cc: Margherita Di Leo <diregola at gmail.com<mailto:diregola at gmail.com>>, Helmut Kudrnovsky <hellik at web.de<mailto:hellik at web.de>>, OSGeo Discussions <discuss at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org>>, OSGeo-Marketing <marketing at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:marketing at lists.osgeo.org>>
Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Marketing] Proprietary GIS on our OSGeo website

I like your language that our open source projects are much more than proprietary software - it is this reason we are focusing on a team photo for each page (rather than a screen shot of the software).

The original bug report reported a direct link to ESRI which was fixed, this is where the "advertising" came in - which was never the original intention and was fixed.

The "Migrate from: ArcMap, MapInfo" idea looks like it does a way better job of communicating and is a positive result of this discussion.
- This information is mission critical for outreach and driving adoption of open source, the top question this website and those new to open source ask is "I am using XXX, what is available?"
- In many cases I do not know the proprietary software and a link to wikipedia article would give a visitor like me useful context (of course we can remove the link and just have text because the website is not for me).
- It also occurs to me to be respectful of trademark; listing competitors is a good practice but it can be done with respect.

Maria of course no offence is intended to volunteers (myself) included. Thanks for participating in this discussion.

--
Jody Garnett

On 20 September 2017 at 10:29, Maria Antonia Brovelli <maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it>> wrote:
Jody, I see very difficult  the existence of a  vast majority of GIS industry that has honestly not heard about open source yet.  Anyway I refuse the idea of "similar proprietary software" because our projects are much more than pieces of code. Behind our software there are communities and limiting our projects to pieces  of code is offensive and insulting for the volunteers behind them. We are more and diverse. This is the reason why there are not "similar proprietary software".
Thanks for removing the links.
Best
Maria

Inviato dal mio dispositivo Samsung

-------- Messaggio originale --------
Da: Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com<mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>>
Data: 20/09/17 18:53 (GMT+01:00)
A: Maria Antonia Brovelli <maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it>>
Cc: Margherita Di Leo <diregola at gmail.com<mailto:diregola at gmail.com>>, Helmut Kudrnovsky <hellik at web.de<mailto:hellik at web.de>>, OSGeo Discussions <discuss at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org>>, OSGeo-Marketing <marketing at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:marketing at lists.osgeo.org>>
Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Marketing] Proprietary GIS on our OSGeo website

Thanks Maria,

I reject the idea that we are advertising proprietary software, so each time it is phrased that way of course everyone well say "no".

I want to help our software reach visitors that feel locked into proprietary software, please recognize this goal and how "migrate from" can help.

--
Jody Garnett

On 20 September 2017 at 09:49, Maria Antonia Brovelli <maria.brovelli at polimi.it<mailto:maria.brovelli at polimi.it>> wrote:
Dear Jody
Personally I agree with Helmut and I don't see any necessity of putting "similar proprietary software" on our web pages. I don't think proprietary software need to be advertized. We are a Foundation about Open Software and I want to see the open source projects on the website that we have been paying as OSGeo.
I ask please to remove the "similar proprietary software"  and the related links.
Many thanks
Best,
Maria

Inviato dal mio dispositivo Samsung

-------- Messaggio originale --------
Da: Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com<mailto:jody.garnett at gmail.com>>
Data: 20/09/17 14:45 (GMT+01:00)
A: Margherita Di Leo <diregola at gmail.com<mailto:diregola at gmail.com>>, Helmut Kudrnovsky <hellik at web.de<mailto:hellik at web.de>>
Cc: OSGeo Discussions <discuss at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:discuss at lists.osgeo.org>>, OSGeo-Marketing <marketing at lists.osgeo.org<mailto:marketing at lists.osgeo.org>>
Oggetto: Re: [OSGeo-Discuss] [Marketing] Proprietary GIS on our OSGeo website

Thanks for the discussion on the bug report. Please keep in mind that this website is written by us, but it is not intended for us - it is intended for the vast majority of the GIS industry that has honestly not heard about open source yet.

These sections are optional, if one of our open source projects has a particular target market in mind filling in this information would really help! Indeed when I go to a normal GIS conference this is the top question - since I have not had a chance to use the proprietary software it is not one I can easily answer.

In the above bug report I would like to change the heading from "Similar Proprietary Products" to "Migrate From", but perhaps that is too confrontational? I would also like to avoid advertising proprietary software, linking to the associated wikipedia entry if appropriate.

I am not interested in reciprocity, I am interested in OSGeo projects taking competition to the GIS industry which as been missing.

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 5:09 AM Margherita Di Leo <diregola at gmail.com<mailto:diregola at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi,

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Helmut Kudrnovsky <hellik at web.de<mailto:hellik at web.de>> wrote:
Dear OSGeo community

I want to bring you a discussion on a github ticket about linking to "similar proprietary products" [1] to your attention.

My comment there:

"I support and concur with Venka that the item "Similar Proprietary Products" should be removed. There isn't only one proprietary GIS software out there, there are several others. IMHO such comparisons may be part of e.g. a reviewed scientific paper/elaboration, where our OSGeo projects - if they want to - may link to. I see no added value for OSGeo to serve such links. As already elsewhere mentioned by me, reciprocity is the key if such items are listed, but I can't see this happen. "

I agree. I don't understand it either.

I'm pretty much convinced that more effort to help our OSGeo projects improving on every level (e.g. documentation, reach out, testing, etc) is the key rather than linking to proprietary software. One of such opportunities may be the upcoming Google Code In (GCI) 2017 e.g. to produce nice screenshots for documentation, produce some fancy videos etc. based on tiny little tasks for students aged 13 to 17. A good invest in the young who will be our OSGeo's future.

Thanks for mentioning that, Helli. May I add that suitable tasks for students may include design of web pages and / or promotional material, see for example  https://codein.withgoogle.com/archive/2015/organization/4777925899452416/task/5259692246827008/
I take the liberty of cc'ing the marketing committee, because it would be nice to see some members joining the code-in mentors pool. Let us know that you want to join, writing an email to gsoc-admin at osgeo.org<mailto:gsoc-admin at osgeo.org> and I'll send you the subscription form.
Hoping that I didn't go much off topic respect to the original meaning of this email

Thank you

--
Margherita Di Leo
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--
--
Jody Garnett
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