[OSGeo-Discuss] Diversity in FOSS4G
Jeff McKenna
jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com
Mon Aug 13 06:16:24 PDT 2018
Thank you Adam. I believe listening and talking directly is even more
important in the case of events such as FOSS4G-Asia where part of the
culture is showing respect for each other. It takes much more of a
boots-on-the-ground approach, to talk directly and plan in those cases.
Looking forward to continuing this discussion in person in Dar.
-jeff
On 2018-08-13 9:38 AM, adam steer wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I appreciate this topic arising. I appreciate the efforts of the FOSS4G
> Dar committee; and the reasons for their decisions. I also appreciate
> that the FOSS4G Asia LOC have a different operating environment and look
> forward to hearing about their drivers. And I appreciate discussion
> about various factors affecting diversity and audiences. From FOSS4G
> Oceania experience it’s not an easy discussion to get right - I hope we
> all make the best effort we can.
>
> I also want to avoid papering over a substantially disheartening part of
> this particular e-mail conversation.
>
> Earlier in this discussion thread a research paper was rolled out as
> evidence that women choose to do STEM less; with the argument following
> that aiming for levels of attendance and speakership at FOSS4G
> conferences which represent the population is over-reach; and then a few
> people jumping on the sciencing wagon.
>
> So I read the paper. …and I'm puzzled that in 2018, such a work would be
> latched onto and held up as truth without question. I would certainly
> not try to use it as a platform to base a solid argument on.
>
> What was more disappointing is that this work was repeatedly held up as
> canon and defended, as a counter to Maria’s patient attempts to inject
> some living experience into discussion about a topic on which she has
> invested vast time and energy (and whose initial assessment of the work
> was actually completely correct)!
>
> A great first step to increase diversity and inclusion would be to avoid
> this type of top down lecturing and engage with experience - and then
> listen. To stories like Vicky’s. To the experience of Maria and Maria;
> to the committee from FOSS4G Asia who have made choices for reasons we
> don’t know; and from FOSS4G in Dar, who made choices for very clear
> reasons because they were able to; and aimed to have a specific impact
> (which I hope, has worked).
>
> Back to lurking now..
>
> Adam
>
>
> --
> Dr. Adam Steer
> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Adam_Steer
> <https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Adam_Steer>
> http://au.linkedin.com/in/adamsteer <http://au.linkedin.com/in/adamsteer>
> http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0046-7236 <http://orcid.org/0000-0003-0046-7236>
> +61 427 091 712
> skype: adam.d.steer
> tweet: @adamdsteer
>
> On 13 August 2018 at 21:21, Jeff McKenna <jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com
> <mailto:jmckenna at gatewaygeomatics.com>> wrote:
>
> Thank you for sharing these personal stories Vicky.
>
> There are so many different cultural factors at our FOSS4G events
> around the world.
>
> How can we make sure that FOSS4G events are both diverse and inclusive?
>
> I think the first step is always to try contacting the FOSS4G local
> committee directly. And if you are concerned of a FOSS4G event but
> don't know who to contact, just send me a quick email and I'll
> forward you the direct contact. In the case of FOSS4G-Asia, I would
> forward you to Nimalika from OSGeo-Sri Lanka, who has been so kind
> to listen and take the advice back to her local organizing
> committee, where they can discuss and make the necessary changes.
>
> I also feel that old-school talking directly is still very
> important, and look forward to speaking directly of these issues
> with leaders Malena, María and others in Dar es Salaam. This is why
> I hop on a plane for a 40 hour trip, to work together on these
> issues so we can all continue to create great FOSS4G events of all
> sizes.
>
> -jeff
>
>
>
>
>
> On 2018-08-13 12:57 AM, Vicky Vergara wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> I went to the last FOSS4G Asia in Hyderabad, India, within IIIT
> university premises.
> There I met wonderful students.
> I was actually impressed with a particular female student, very
> bright, and with lots of ideas to tell.
>
> I invited her to eat out.
> She could not go out of the university, because her father had
> forbidden her to go out of the University premises.
> I asked, where is your father?
> She told me he lived about 300km to the north, and that when she
> needed to go out, he would drive to take her to where she needed
> to go.
>
> Culture: not obey the (family/religion/legal) rules is not an
> option.
> She follows the rules, she is obedient.
>
> What do you expect for woman who live that kind of culture, that
> we don't understand, not even a 1%?
> If woman like her, get invited to be a keynote speaker, what is
> the probability for her to go?
>
> Can you fight a culture that is completely different to
> occidental cultures?
> Can you fight that culture, sitting in front of your computer,
> in England, USA, Mexico?
>
> What would you tell her if you had that conversation?
> In my particular case, I told her:
> I am sure my father has the same concerns as your father, that
> is why he came with me.
>
> And we ate in the University.
>
> I invited my father, I paid his airplane ticket, hotel, food,
> souvenir, etc.
> The reason that I invited him is: I wanted to fit in the culture
> as much as possible.
> When passing through customs, he was called, and he had to do
> the talking.
> When going shopping or eating, the cashier first interaction was
> directed to him.
>
> I can't fight a culture, I have to blend in.
>
> But I am glad that, this student's father is letting her study.
> And maybe, in the future, she will have daughters that will go
> to the University and they will be able to go out of the
> University premises to eat.
> And she will have grand-daughters that will can go out of the
> country (without a chaperon) and be speakers.
>
> Regards
> Vicky
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 12, 2018 at 6:19 PM, Ben Caradoc-Davies
> <ben at transient.nz <mailto:ben at transient.nz>
> <mailto:ben at transient.nz <mailto:ben at transient.nz>>> wrote:
>
> On 12/08/18 21:14, María Arias de Reyna wrote:
>
> No, this is not a dismissal based on opinions. It is
> based on facts.
> This paper falls into the "correlation does not imply
> causation"
>
> fallacy:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation>
>
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation>>
>
>
> Yes, but lack of correlation refutes causation. That is
> their point:
> gender equality does *not* cause equality of STEM gender
> outcomes.
>
> Science requires humility. There is no greater experience
> in science
> than refuting your own hypothesis because it means that you
> might
> have discovered something non-obvious. The obvious
> hypothesis in
> this study was that equality of STEM gender outcomes would
> improve
> with gender equality. Their surprising discovery is the
> opposite.
> While there is much conjecture as to the cause, the core
> finding is
> remarkable, good science, and worthy of publication (in my
> uninformed opinion as a layman).
>
> Kind regards,
>
>
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