[Europe] Urgent: Status of [OSGeo Europe]

María Arias de Reyna delawen at gmail.com
Thu Sep 9 00:54:39 PDT 2021 

Hi Till,

Thanks for the effort.

Personally I don't have the bandwidth to invest relevant time here. I still
thinks this is important, that we should be closer to the European
Commission to push FOSS enforcement laws, that we should improve the
business network among European companies and, of course, that we should be
more active in general.

But as much as it saddens me, unless we inject here "fresh blood" or some
company sees the benefit of investing their effort (for the political and
business?), I doubt we will get many volunteers. Specially during the
pandemic. We are all tired and overworked with personal things.

Maybe we should try to contact universities to get younger volunteers who
are looking for a place to help and are not already busy with other duties?

Cheers!
María.

On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 9:41 AM Till Adams <till.adams at fossgis.de> wrote:

> Dear Europe list and especially hello Dirk,
>
> I fear that the silence after my email (see below) is self-explaining. I
> think we should execute the liquidation of OSgeo Europe (or transfer it
> to another status, e.g. a loose group of willing people without any
> organisational status).
>
> Regards, Till
>
>
> Am 01.09.21 um 15:39 schrieb Till Adams:
> > Dear Dirk and @OSGeo Europe again,
> >
> >
> > I now had the time to look little deeper into what Dirk wrote. Sorry for
> > bothering you again, but I think we are in a situation, where decisions
> > need to be taken:
> >
> > First of all, regarding our presentation at OSGeo's AM: I would say,
> > that we have nothing really interesting (and new) to present to the
> > community, so I would propose to skip the part of OSgeo-Europe and
> > instead of that, take a look on ourselves:
> >
> > If you browse to the end of Dirks email (see below), he claerly says,
> > what needs to be decided:
> >
> > Option a: Restart of OSgeo Europe with "fresh" people, new ideas and new
> > power
> >
> > Option b: give up and execute liquidation
> >
> > I totally agree with Dirk, that "Opition b" is the least option we all
> > want. But - as you all should know - it is impossible to power a
> > community without people. Don't understand me wrong: This is not
> > fingerpointing to anybody !! -- I know that I did not give much input to
> > OSGeo Europe in the past two years - to say it carefully ;-).
> >
> > The question is:
> > Is there still a community around OSGeo Europe? Are there people, that
> > have power, ideas and time for a re-start?
> >
> > What about you?
> > Are you/we willing to dare a re-start of OSGeo-Europe?
> > Where are the "fresh" people with new ideas and a lot of power??
> >
> > Maybe FOSS4G BA gives a good opportunity for a community meeting?
> >
> > Please comment.
> >
> > Till
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Am 31.08.21 um 16:46 schrieb Till Adams:
> >> Dear Dirk,
> >>
> >> thanks for the input - but: No, no one is going physically to BA, me
> >> neither. FOSS4G BA is an onlien conference ;-)
> >>
> >> All I could do is put your thoughtsi nto slides, record it and send it
> >> to Vicky, so that she can add it to the AM video.
> >>
> >> I will ask her for some more time and will do.
> >>
> >> Till
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 29.08.21 um 12:08 schrieb Dirk Frigne:
> >>> Hi Till,
> >>>
> >>> It took me a bit longer that I wanted. I hope it was worth the
> waiting...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Dear list,
> >>>
> >>> As a preparation for the AGM of Friday 01 October 11:00 AM AST or
> >>> 16:00 CET, I prepared some input.
> >>> Till will go physically to  Buenos Aires. I will not make it but I'll
> >>> try to connect online if possible.
> >>>
> >>> It would be good if Till could present the Local European Chapter on
> >>> stage during the AGM.
> >>>
> >>> It would also be good if there is a specific meeting about the future
> >>> of OSGeo Local Chapter, as we hit some damage during the last 2 years.
> >>>
> >>> For those new to the content, a short recap:
> >>>
> >>> *History* (See also:
> >>> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Local_Chapter_EU_History + update)
> >>> (please feel free to update where I missed some activities or actions)
> >>>
> >>> the first ideas for OSGeo Europe Chapter were launched in 2014.
> >>> Actually the first idea’s started in 2013 on the FOSS4G CEE Conference
> >>> in Bucharest.
> >>>
> >>> In 2015 there was some need to promote open standards for ICT
> >>> procurement in Europe.
> >>> Proposal to start an initiative on the Foss4G conference in Bonn 2016.
> >>> Bylaws discussed and prepared during 2016 / 2017.
> >>>
> >>> *Birth of the organisation*
> >>> Bylaws signed 20 July 2021 during the FOSS4G conference in Paris.
> >>>
> >>> OSGeo was founded with a legal status as a non-profit organisation
> >>> based on Belgium law. We have 2 bankaccounts and a legal status with
> >>> rights and obligations.
> >>> One of the interesting rights is that we don’t have to pay value added
> >>> tax (VAT) when buying goods, but when we sell services we need to
> >>> apply for VAT.
> >>>
> >>> 2017 - 2018 was also the year I tried to find out how to behave as a
> ngo.
> >>>
> >>> Some contacts where initiated with UN Committee, discussions amongst
> >>> members how to work on a common tender, investigating what are the
> >>> obligations to report for the Belgian authorities in a way we could
> >>> recuperate the VAT.
> >>>
> >>> November 2017: preparation for first board meeting OSGeo Europe
> >>>
> >>> Board meeting 15 December 2017: no of the board members attended
> >>>
> >>> Jan- February 2018:
> >>>
> >>> Further administrative burden to check all the signatures and ID’s of
> >>> the board members,
> >>> the publication of bylaws of the organisation in the Belgian
> >>> registers. Opening the bank accounts.
> >>> (Since the terroristic attacks in Belgium, these procedures became
> >>> more difficult than before).
> >>> This took more time as expected.
> >>>
> >>> March 2018: Meeting in Brussels about the Copernicus program . Goal:
> >>> promote OSGeo and promote Copernicus @OSGeo.
> >>>
> >>> Jul 2018: FOSS4G Conference Guimrães:
> >>> Presentation of OSGeo EU initiative to promote OSGeo software and
> >>> projects on non FOSS events.
> >>>
> >>> Aug 2018: organisation of first initiative in collaboration with 5
> >>> OSGeo projects.
> >>> OSGeo Europe did the coordination of the INSPIRE 2018 event in Antwerp
> >>> and in return we could promote OSGeo on that event.
> >>>
> >>> 26 – 30 Aug: FOSS4G Bucharest: short status update by Joachim
> >>>
> >>> 19 September  2018  there was a first event with OSGeo on the INSPIRE
> >>> conference in Antwerp with a presentation about the eco-system of
> >>> OSGeo. OSGeo had one of the big boots during the conference.
> >>>
> >>> The goal was to promote OSGeo and the OSGeo projects, the companies
> >>> behind them and to create a European contact point for information to
> >>> the non FOSS world.
> >>>
> >>> With 5 paying contributors we had a budget of 10.000 EUR to organise
> >>> the event and the boot. By using the scale advantage, it was of
> >>> intrest to the participants, OSGeo Europe could present itself as host
> >>> and we had a small benefit of approx 1000 Eur to pay for the
> >>> administrative overhead (the accountant responsible for the official
> >>> registrations and publications).
> >>>
> >>> Plans for organising more events in Germany, France and other
> >>> countries did not materialize.
> >>>
> >>> But then all activities on my part were paused due to ...
> >>>
> >>> *(Some personal notes)*
> >>>
> >>> Nov 2018 - Nov  2019: black out for me (literally …)
> >>>
> >>> Dec 2019 – Feb 2020: personally: try to find the energy to reboot the
> >>> Local Chapter but I still missed the energy to do so.
> >>>
> >>> And then there was Covid…
> >>>
> >>> Engagement in a community (like OSGeo) takes a lot of energy.
> >>> Luckily this energy is fuelled by attending the activities,
> >>> participating conferences, meeting other people and work together
> >>> promoting FOSS and stimulating the FOSS industry.
> >>> When this falls away, like it was in times of Covid this is even more
> >>> challenging (see the presentation
> >>> https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/3MNBBB/).
> >>> For me personally, it was very hard to find the energy back.
> >>>
> >>> Personally I need a mission I want to work on.
> >>> The world is changing very fast, so the reasons I started engaging for
> >>> FOSS now more than 15 years ago,  changed over time.
> >>> One of the strengths of FOSS is that it starts from *‘givving’*. But
> >>> to be able to *‘give’* you need others who receive and who are glad
> >>> with the *‘gift’*. I need to find the right focus where my
> >>> contribution helps our community forward, preferably with other people.
> >>>
> >>> It is this exercise we should do again.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *Status of the ngo OSGeo Europe vzw*
> >>> To fulfil all the obligations the Belgian law describes, I asked a
> >>> account to help me with the legal stuff.
> >>> This costs some money.
> >>> Almost every year,  laws change in Belgium (and I think also in
> >>> Europe), this also has impact on  ngo’s.
> >>> The reporting becomes more demanding. f.i. a UBO-register is a new
> >>> obligation. (https://financien.belgium.be/nl/E-services/Ubo-register).
> >>> As we have an international board, this is a bit more complex than
> >>> with only Belgian id’s.
> >>>
> >>> Also, as intrest rates are below zero, banks that previously provided
> >>> free services now also charge a monthly fee. This also takes money
> >>> from our accounts.
> >>>
> >>> June 30, 2021 we closed our accounts with a claim on the VAT tax
> >>> department of dept to the accountant of 314,30 EURO. This is the
> >>> amount of money we get back from government because we aply to the VAT
> >>> rules.
> >>> But for the work done by the accountant the last 3 years, we have an
> >>> unpaid dept of 693,55 EURO. Every quarter this grows a bit.
> >>>
> >>> The status on the accounts is (OSGeo EU : 38,43 EUR, GRASS: 1389,57
> >>> EURO).
> >>>
> >>> The income of OSGeo Europe is zero.
> >>>
> >>> Without organising events that produce the necessary income and VAT
> >>> taxes that we can recuperate, this has no sense.
> >>>
> >>> So it is no rocket science that we only have 2 options (imho):
> >>>
> >>> Option a:
> >>> Find the money to pay for the current depts.
> >>> Find a way to get the minimal income to pay for the necessary Yearly
> >>> costs (+/- 1000 Euro / Year)
> >>> Organise elections for a new board
> >>> Define/update/reactivate the mission and activities OSGeo Europe wants
> >>> to do
> >>>
> >>> Option b:
> >>> Execute the liquidation of the ngo
> >>>
> >>> option b would be a real shame, since we've devoted a lot of energy
> >>> and community discussions to building this organization.
> >>> If there is no other option, then this is unfortunately the only way
> >>> to go.
> >>>
> >>> If option a is chosen, I want to organize the elections and help find
> >>> the new mission. I am also available to engage myself if I can
> >>> contribute to the mission and get the necessary energy from it.
> >>>
> >>> In case it becomes option b, I will take steps in October to organize
> >>> the liquidation.
> >>>
> >>> Any comments are welcome,
> >>> Thanks in advance for your contribution.
> >>>
> >>> Dirk
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 24/08/2021 09:07, Till Adams wrote:
> >>>> Hi Dirk,
> >>>>
> >>>> thanks for the "food" - that's a good idea. No, I am not going to
> >>>> Finland, it's tha AM on FOSS4G Buenos Aires ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>> Till
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Am 19.08.21 um 14:40 schrieb Dirk Frigne:
> >>>>> Hi Till,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I will give you some food for tought, later today.
> >>>>> Good to hear you go to Finland!
> >>>>> I've not yet decided.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dirk
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 19/08/2021 08:10, adams at osgeo.org wrote:
> >>>>>> Dear European chapter!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I know there was not much activity, but at least we planned (and
> >>>>>> postproned) a FOSS4G Europe! Did any further activities under the
> >>>>>> European chapter umbrella take place and is someone willing to
> >>>>>> present them.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In case no one wants to, I can also present them, as I will join
> >>>>>> the AM
> >>>>>> anyway - but I need some "food" for this ;-9
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards, Till
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Am 18.08.21 um 18:13 schrieb Astrid Emde (OSGeo Secretary):
> >>>>>>> Hello Europe Local Chapter,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> we invite you and your team to present the local chapter at the
> OSGeo
> >>>>>>> AGM 2021.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This year we will publish the OSGeo AGM video in advance of FOSS4G
> >>>>>>> [1].
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You find all important information about the AGM at [5].
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It would be great if someone could volunteer to present the status
> at
> >>>>>>> the AGM. Please send me an email and I will provide an upload link
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> the video.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Timeline
> >>>>>>> -----------------------
> >>>>>>> - 2021-08-30: upload your video and update the AGM slides [2]
> >>>>>>> - 2021-09-10: AGM 2021 complete video will be published
> >>>>>>> - 2021-10-01: 11h Argentinian Time Zone (14:00 UTC) Join the OSGeo
> >>>>>>> AGM
> >>>>>>> 2021 meeting at FOSS4G [3] [4]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you have questions or problems with the upload of your video
> >>>>>>> please
> >>>>>>> let us know secretary (at) osgeo (dot) org.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Stay safe,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Astrid Emde
> >>>>>>> OSGeo Secretary
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDvJEf8hXbyeVqaYaS8sLvw
> >>>>>>> [2]
> >>>>>>>
> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1brbBb7-sKRI6U4dZ7LKnBT_-NnWzyS2TaZqVXzy8RDo/edit#slide=id.p4
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [3] https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/WDEW3P/
> >>>>>>> [4]
> >>>>>>>
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2021&month=10&day=1&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=51&p2=26&p3=49&p4=155&p5=217&p6=312&p7=250&p8=71&p9=248&p10=240
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [5] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meeting_2021
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Europe mailing list
> >>>>>> Europe at lists.osgeo.org
> >>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
> >>>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Europe mailing list
> >>>> Europe at lists.osgeo.org
> >>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
> >>>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Europe mailing list
> >> Europe at lists.osgeo.org
> >> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
> > _______________________________________________
> > Europe mailing list
> > Europe at lists.osgeo.org
> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
> _______________________________________________
> Europe mailing list
> Europe at lists.osgeo.org
> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
>
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