[Europe] Urgent: Status of [OSGeo Europe]

Till Adams till.adams at fossgis.de
Thu Sep 9 01:03:04 PDT 2021


Maria,

many thanks for your repl - at least one ;-)

I totally agree with you and I see the same lack of time/energy on my side.

Maybe the first step nevertheless should be transforming the NGO "OSGeo
Europe" to another format, that does not cost us anything?

This gives us time for a chance to re-start and maybe also time to find
some active people?

Till


Am 09.09.21 um 09:54 schrieb María Arias de Reyna:
> Hi Till,
>
> Thanks for the effort.
>
> Personally I don't have the bandwidth to invest relevant time here. I
> still thinks this is important, that we should be closer to the
> European Commission to push FOSS enforcement laws, that we should
> improve the business network among European companies and, of course,
> that we should be more active in general.
>
> But as much as it saddens me, unless we inject here "fresh blood" or
> some company sees the benefit of investing their effort (for the
> political and business?), I doubt we will get many volunteers.
> Specially during the pandemic. We are all tired and overworked with
> personal things.
>
> Maybe we should try to contact universities to get younger volunteers
> who are looking for a place to help and are not already busy with
> other duties?
>
> Cheers!
> María.
>
> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 9:41 AM Till Adams <till.adams at fossgis.de
> <mailto:till.adams at fossgis.de>> wrote:
>
>     Dear Europe list and especially hello Dirk,
>
>     I fear that the silence after my email (see below) is
>     self-explaining. I
>     think we should execute the liquidation of OSgeo Europe (or
>     transfer it
>     to another status, e.g. a loose group of willing people without any
>     organisational status).
>
>     Regards, Till
>
>
>     Am 01.09.21 um 15:39 schrieb Till Adams:
>     > Dear Dirk and @OSGeo Europe again,
>     >
>     >
>     > I now had the time to look little deeper into what Dirk wrote.
>     Sorry for
>     > bothering you again, but I think we are in a situation, where
>     decisions
>     > need to be taken:
>     >
>     > First of all, regarding our presentation at OSGeo's AM: I would say,
>     > that we have nothing really interesting (and new) to present to the
>     > community, so I would propose to skip the part of OSgeo-Europe and
>     > instead of that, take a look on ourselves:
>     >
>     > If you browse to the end of Dirks email (see below), he claerly
>     says,
>     > what needs to be decided:
>     >
>     > Option a: Restart of OSgeo Europe with "fresh" people, new ideas
>     and new
>     > power
>     >
>     > Option b: give up and execute liquidation
>     >
>     > I totally agree with Dirk, that "Opition b" is the least option
>     we all
>     > want. But - as you all should know - it is impossible to power a
>     > community without people. Don't understand me wrong: This is not
>     > fingerpointing to anybody !! -- I know that I did not give much
>     input to
>     > OSGeo Europe in the past two years - to say it carefully ;-).
>     >
>     > The question is:
>     > Is there still a community around OSGeo Europe? Are there
>     people, that
>     > have power, ideas and time for a re-start?
>     >
>     > What about you?
>     > Are you/we willing to dare a re-start of OSGeo-Europe?
>     > Where are the "fresh" people with new ideas and a lot of power??
>     >
>     > Maybe FOSS4G BA gives a good opportunity for a community meeting?
>     >
>     > Please comment.
>     >
>     > Till
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     > Am 31.08.21 um 16:46 schrieb Till Adams:
>     >> Dear Dirk,
>     >>
>     >> thanks for the input - but: No, no one is going physically to
>     BA, me
>     >> neither. FOSS4G BA is an onlien conference ;-)
>     >>
>     >> All I could do is put your thoughtsi nto slides, record it and
>     send it
>     >> to Vicky, so that she can add it to the AM video.
>     >>
>     >> I will ask her for some more time and will do.
>     >>
>     >> Till
>     >>
>     >>
>     >> Am 29.08.21 um 12:08 schrieb Dirk Frigne:
>     >>> Hi Till,
>     >>>
>     >>> It took me a bit longer that I wanted. I hope it was worth the
>     waiting...
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>> Dear list,
>     >>>
>     >>> As a preparation for the AGM of Friday 01 October 11:00 AM AST or
>     >>> 16:00 CET, I prepared some input.
>     >>> Till will go physically to  Buenos Aires. I will not make it
>     but I'll
>     >>> try to connect online if possible.
>     >>>
>     >>> It would be good if Till could present the Local European
>     Chapter on
>     >>> stage during the AGM.
>     >>>
>     >>> It would also be good if there is a specific meeting about the
>     future
>     >>> of OSGeo Local Chapter, as we hit some damage during the last
>     2 years.
>     >>>
>     >>> For those new to the content, a short recap:
>     >>>
>     >>> *History* (See also:
>     >>> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Local_Chapter_EU_History
>     <https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Local_Chapter_EU_History> + update)
>     >>> (please feel free to update where I missed some activities or
>     actions)
>     >>>
>     >>> the first ideas for OSGeo Europe Chapter were launched in 2014.
>     >>> Actually the first idea’s started in 2013 on the FOSS4G CEE
>     Conference
>     >>> in Bucharest.
>     >>>
>     >>> In 2015 there was some need to promote open standards for ICT
>     >>> procurement in Europe.
>     >>> Proposal to start an initiative on the Foss4G conference in
>     Bonn 2016.
>     >>> Bylaws discussed and prepared during 2016 / 2017.
>     >>>
>     >>> *Birth of the organisation*
>     >>> Bylaws signed 20 July 2021 during the FOSS4G conference in Paris.
>     >>>
>     >>> OSGeo was founded with a legal status as a non-profit organisation
>     >>> based on Belgium law. We have 2 bankaccounts and a legal
>     status with
>     >>> rights and obligations.
>     >>> One of the interesting rights is that we don’t have to pay
>     value added
>     >>> tax (VAT) when buying goods, but when we sell services we need to
>     >>> apply for VAT.
>     >>>
>     >>> 2017 - 2018 was also the year I tried to find out how to
>     behave as a ngo.
>     >>>
>     >>> Some contacts where initiated with UN Committee, discussions
>     amongst
>     >>> members how to work on a common tender, investigating what are the
>     >>> obligations to report for the Belgian authorities in a way we
>     could
>     >>> recuperate the VAT.
>     >>>
>     >>> November 2017: preparation for first board meeting OSGeo Europe
>     >>>
>     >>> Board meeting 15 December 2017: no of the board members attended
>     >>>
>     >>> Jan- February 2018:
>     >>>
>     >>> Further administrative burden to check all the signatures and
>     ID’s of
>     >>> the board members,
>     >>> the publication of bylaws of the organisation in the Belgian
>     >>> registers. Opening the bank accounts.
>     >>> (Since the terroristic attacks in Belgium, these procedures became
>     >>> more difficult than before).
>     >>> This took more time as expected.
>     >>>
>     >>> March 2018: Meeting in Brussels about the Copernicus program .
>     Goal:
>     >>> promote OSGeo and promote Copernicus @OSGeo.
>     >>>
>     >>> Jul 2018: FOSS4G Conference Guimrães:
>     >>> Presentation of OSGeo EU initiative to promote OSGeo software and
>     >>> projects on non FOSS events.
>     >>>
>     >>> Aug 2018: organisation of first initiative in collaboration with 5
>     >>> OSGeo projects.
>     >>> OSGeo Europe did the coordination of the INSPIRE 2018 event in
>     Antwerp
>     >>> and in return we could promote OSGeo on that event.
>     >>>
>     >>> 26 – 30 Aug: FOSS4G Bucharest: short status update by Joachim
>     >>>
>     >>> 19 September  2018  there was a first event with OSGeo on the
>     INSPIRE
>     >>> conference in Antwerp with a presentation about the eco-system of
>     >>> OSGeo. OSGeo had one of the big boots during the conference.
>     >>>
>     >>> The goal was to promote OSGeo and the OSGeo projects, the
>     companies
>     >>> behind them and to create a European contact point for
>     information to
>     >>> the non FOSS world.
>     >>>
>     >>> With 5 paying contributors we had a budget of 10.000 EUR to
>     organise
>     >>> the event and the boot. By using the scale advantage, it was of
>     >>> intrest to the participants, OSGeo Europe could present itself
>     as host
>     >>> and we had a small benefit of approx 1000 Eur to pay for the
>     >>> administrative overhead (the accountant responsible for the
>     official
>     >>> registrations and publications).   
>     >>>
>     >>> Plans for organising more events in Germany, France and other
>     >>> countries did not materialize.
>     >>>
>     >>> But then all activities on my part were paused due to ...
>     >>>
>     >>> *(Some personal notes)*
>     >>>
>     >>> Nov 2018 - Nov  2019: black out for me (literally …)
>     >>>
>     >>> Dec 2019 – Feb 2020: personally: try to find the energy to
>     reboot the
>     >>> Local Chapter but I still missed the energy to do so.
>     >>>
>     >>> And then there was Covid…
>     >>>
>     >>> Engagement in a community (like OSGeo) takes a lot of energy.
>     >>> Luckily this energy is fuelled by attending the activities,
>     >>> participating conferences, meeting other people and work together
>     >>> promoting FOSS and stimulating the FOSS industry.
>     >>> When this falls away, like it was in times of Covid this is
>     even more
>     >>> challenging (see the presentation
>     >>> https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/3MNBBB/
>     <https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/3MNBBB/>).
>     >>> For me personally, it was very hard to find the energy back.
>     >>>
>     >>> Personally I need a mission I want to work on.
>     >>> The world is changing very fast, so the reasons I started
>     engaging for
>     >>> FOSS now more than 15 years ago,  changed over time.
>     >>> One of the strengths of FOSS is that it starts from
>     *‘givving’*. But
>     >>> to be able to *‘give’* you need others who receive and who are
>     glad
>     >>> with the *‘gift’*. I need to find the right focus where my
>     >>> contribution helps our community forward, preferably with
>     other people.
>     >>>
>     >>> It is this exercise we should do again.
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>> *Status of the ngo OSGeo Europe vzw*
>     >>> To fulfil all the obligations the Belgian law describes, I asked a
>     >>> account to help me with the legal stuff.
>     >>> This costs some money.
>     >>> Almost every year,  laws change in Belgium (and I think also in
>     >>> Europe), this also has impact on  ngo’s.
>     >>> The reporting becomes more demanding. f.i. a UBO-register is a new
>     >>> obligation.
>     (https://financien.belgium.be/nl/E-services/Ubo-register
>     <https://financien.belgium.be/nl/E-services/Ubo-register>).
>     >>> As we have an international board, this is a bit more complex than
>     >>> with only Belgian id’s.
>     >>>
>     >>> Also, as intrest rates are below zero, banks that previously
>     provided
>     >>> free services now also charge a monthly fee. This also takes money
>     >>> from our accounts.
>     >>>
>     >>> June 30, 2021 we closed our accounts with a claim on the VAT tax
>     >>> department of dept to the accountant of 314,30 EURO. This is the
>     >>> amount of money we get back from government because we aply to
>     the VAT
>     >>> rules.
>     >>> But for the work done by the accountant the last 3 years, we
>     have an
>     >>> unpaid dept of 693,55 EURO. Every quarter this grows a bit.
>     >>>
>     >>> The status on the accounts is (OSGeo EU : 38,43 EUR, GRASS:
>     1389,57
>     >>> EURO).
>     >>>
>     >>> The income of OSGeo Europe is zero.
>     >>>
>     >>> Without organising events that produce the necessary income
>     and VAT
>     >>> taxes that we can recuperate, this has no sense.
>     >>>
>     >>> So it is no rocket science that we only have 2 options (imho):
>     >>>
>     >>> Option a:
>     >>> Find the money to pay for the current depts.
>     >>> Find a way to get the minimal income to pay for the necessary
>     Yearly
>     >>> costs (+/- 1000 Euro / Year)
>     >>> Organise elections for a new board
>     >>> Define/update/reactivate the mission and activities OSGeo
>     Europe wants
>     >>> to do
>     >>>
>     >>> Option b:
>     >>> Execute the liquidation of the ngo
>     >>>
>     >>> option b would be a real shame, since we've devoted a lot of
>     energy
>     >>> and community discussions to building this organization.
>     >>> If there is no other option, then this is unfortunately the
>     only way
>     >>> to go.
>     >>>
>     >>> If option a is chosen, I want to organize the elections and
>     help find
>     >>> the new mission. I am also available to engage myself if I can
>     >>> contribute to the mission and get the necessary energy from it.
>     >>>
>     >>> In case it becomes option b, I will take steps in October to
>     organize
>     >>> the liquidation.
>     >>>
>     >>> Any comments are welcome,
>     >>> Thanks in advance for your contribution.
>     >>>
>     >>> Dirk
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>> On 24/08/2021 09:07, Till Adams wrote:
>     >>>> Hi Dirk,
>     >>>>
>     >>>> thanks for the "food" - that's a good idea. No, I am not going to
>     >>>> Finland, it's tha AM on FOSS4G Buenos Aires ;-)
>     >>>>
>     >>>> Till
>     >>>>
>     >>>>
>     >>>> Am 19.08.21 um 14:40 schrieb Dirk Frigne:
>     >>>>> Hi Till,
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> I will give you some food for tought, later today.
>     >>>>> Good to hear you go to Finland!
>     >>>>> I've not yet decided.
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> Dirk
>     >>>>>
>     >>>>> On 19/08/2021 08:10, adams at osgeo.org
>     <mailto:adams at osgeo.org> wrote:
>     >>>>>> Dear European chapter!
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> I know there was not much activity, but at least we planned
>     (and
>     >>>>>> postproned) a FOSS4G Europe! Did any further activities
>     under the
>     >>>>>> European chapter umbrella take place and is someone willing to
>     >>>>>> present them.
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> In case no one wants to, I can also present them, as I will
>     join
>     >>>>>> the AM
>     >>>>>> anyway - but I need some "food" for this ;-9
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> Regards, Till
>     >>>>>>
>     >>>>>> Am 18.08.21 um 18:13 schrieb Astrid Emde (OSGeo Secretary):
>     >>>>>>> Hello Europe Local Chapter,
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> we invite you and your team to present the local chapter
>     at the OSGeo
>     >>>>>>> AGM 2021.
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> This year we will publish the OSGeo AGM video in advance
>     of FOSS4G
>     >>>>>>> [1].
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> You find all important information about the AGM at [5].
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> It would be great if someone could volunteer to present
>     the status at
>     >>>>>>> the AGM. Please send me an email and I will provide an
>     upload link
>     >>>>>>> for
>     >>>>>>> the video.
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> Timeline
>     >>>>>>> -----------------------
>     >>>>>>> - 2021-08-30: upload your video and update the AGM slides [2]
>     >>>>>>> - 2021-09-10: AGM 2021 complete video will be published
>     >>>>>>> - 2021-10-01: 11h Argentinian Time Zone (14:00 UTC) Join
>     the OSGeo
>     >>>>>>> AGM
>     >>>>>>> 2021 meeting at FOSS4G [3] [4]
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> If you have questions or problems with the upload of your
>     video
>     >>>>>>> please
>     >>>>>>> let us know secretary (at) osgeo (dot) org.
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> Stay safe,
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> Astrid Emde
>     >>>>>>> OSGeo Secretary
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> [1]
>     https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDvJEf8hXbyeVqaYaS8sLvw
>     <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDvJEf8hXbyeVqaYaS8sLvw>
>     >>>>>>> [2]
>     >>>>>>>
>     https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1brbBb7-sKRI6U4dZ7LKnBT_-NnWzyS2TaZqVXzy8RDo/edit#slide=id.p4
>     <https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1brbBb7-sKRI6U4dZ7LKnBT_-NnWzyS2TaZqVXzy8RDo/edit#slide=id.p4>
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> [3]
>     https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/WDEW3P/
>     <https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/WDEW3P/>
>     >>>>>>> [4]
>     >>>>>>>
>     https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2021&month=10&day=1&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=51&p2=26&p3=49&p4=155&p5=217&p6=312&p7=250&p8=71&p9=248&p10=240
>     <https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2021&month=10&day=1&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=51&p2=26&p3=49&p4=155&p5=217&p6=312&p7=250&p8=71&p9=248&p10=240>
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>>> [5]
>     https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meeting_2021
>     <https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meeting_2021>
>     >>>>>>>
>     >>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>     >>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
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>     >>>>>>
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>     >>>>
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