[Europe] Urgent: Status of [OSGeo Europe]
Till Adams
till.adams at fossgis.de
Thu Sep 9 01:03:04 PDT 2021
Maria,
many thanks for your repl - at least one ;-)
I totally agree with you and I see the same lack of time/energy on my side.
Maybe the first step nevertheless should be transforming the NGO "OSGeo
Europe" to another format, that does not cost us anything?
This gives us time for a chance to re-start and maybe also time to find
some active people?
Till
Am 09.09.21 um 09:54 schrieb María Arias de Reyna:
> Hi Till,
>
> Thanks for the effort.
>
> Personally I don't have the bandwidth to invest relevant time here. I
> still thinks this is important, that we should be closer to the
> European Commission to push FOSS enforcement laws, that we should
> improve the business network among European companies and, of course,
> that we should be more active in general.
>
> But as much as it saddens me, unless we inject here "fresh blood" or
> some company sees the benefit of investing their effort (for the
> political and business?), I doubt we will get many volunteers.
> Specially during the pandemic. We are all tired and overworked with
> personal things.
>
> Maybe we should try to contact universities to get younger volunteers
> who are looking for a place to help and are not already busy with
> other duties?
>
> Cheers!
> María.
>
> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 9:41 AM Till Adams <till.adams at fossgis.de
> <mailto:till.adams at fossgis.de>> wrote:
>
> Dear Europe list and especially hello Dirk,
>
> I fear that the silence after my email (see below) is
> self-explaining. I
> think we should execute the liquidation of OSgeo Europe (or
> transfer it
> to another status, e.g. a loose group of willing people without any
> organisational status).
>
> Regards, Till
>
>
> Am 01.09.21 um 15:39 schrieb Till Adams:
> > Dear Dirk and @OSGeo Europe again,
> >
> >
> > I now had the time to look little deeper into what Dirk wrote.
> Sorry for
> > bothering you again, but I think we are in a situation, where
> decisions
> > need to be taken:
> >
> > First of all, regarding our presentation at OSGeo's AM: I would say,
> > that we have nothing really interesting (and new) to present to the
> > community, so I would propose to skip the part of OSgeo-Europe and
> > instead of that, take a look on ourselves:
> >
> > If you browse to the end of Dirks email (see below), he claerly
> says,
> > what needs to be decided:
> >
> > Option a: Restart of OSgeo Europe with "fresh" people, new ideas
> and new
> > power
> >
> > Option b: give up and execute liquidation
> >
> > I totally agree with Dirk, that "Opition b" is the least option
> we all
> > want. But - as you all should know - it is impossible to power a
> > community without people. Don't understand me wrong: This is not
> > fingerpointing to anybody !! -- I know that I did not give much
> input to
> > OSGeo Europe in the past two years - to say it carefully ;-).
> >
> > The question is:
> > Is there still a community around OSGeo Europe? Are there
> people, that
> > have power, ideas and time for a re-start?
> >
> > What about you?
> > Are you/we willing to dare a re-start of OSGeo-Europe?
> > Where are the "fresh" people with new ideas and a lot of power??
> >
> > Maybe FOSS4G BA gives a good opportunity for a community meeting?
> >
> > Please comment.
> >
> > Till
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Am 31.08.21 um 16:46 schrieb Till Adams:
> >> Dear Dirk,
> >>
> >> thanks for the input - but: No, no one is going physically to
> BA, me
> >> neither. FOSS4G BA is an onlien conference ;-)
> >>
> >> All I could do is put your thoughtsi nto slides, record it and
> send it
> >> to Vicky, so that she can add it to the AM video.
> >>
> >> I will ask her for some more time and will do.
> >>
> >> Till
> >>
> >>
> >> Am 29.08.21 um 12:08 schrieb Dirk Frigne:
> >>> Hi Till,
> >>>
> >>> It took me a bit longer that I wanted. I hope it was worth the
> waiting...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Dear list,
> >>>
> >>> As a preparation for the AGM of Friday 01 October 11:00 AM AST or
> >>> 16:00 CET, I prepared some input.
> >>> Till will go physically to Buenos Aires. I will not make it
> but I'll
> >>> try to connect online if possible.
> >>>
> >>> It would be good if Till could present the Local European
> Chapter on
> >>> stage during the AGM.
> >>>
> >>> It would also be good if there is a specific meeting about the
> future
> >>> of OSGeo Local Chapter, as we hit some damage during the last
> 2 years.
> >>>
> >>> For those new to the content, a short recap:
> >>>
> >>> *History* (See also:
> >>> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Local_Chapter_EU_History
> <https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Local_Chapter_EU_History> + update)
> >>> (please feel free to update where I missed some activities or
> actions)
> >>>
> >>> the first ideas for OSGeo Europe Chapter were launched in 2014.
> >>> Actually the first idea’s started in 2013 on the FOSS4G CEE
> Conference
> >>> in Bucharest.
> >>>
> >>> In 2015 there was some need to promote open standards for ICT
> >>> procurement in Europe.
> >>> Proposal to start an initiative on the Foss4G conference in
> Bonn 2016.
> >>> Bylaws discussed and prepared during 2016 / 2017.
> >>>
> >>> *Birth of the organisation*
> >>> Bylaws signed 20 July 2021 during the FOSS4G conference in Paris.
> >>>
> >>> OSGeo was founded with a legal status as a non-profit organisation
> >>> based on Belgium law. We have 2 bankaccounts and a legal
> status with
> >>> rights and obligations.
> >>> One of the interesting rights is that we don’t have to pay
> value added
> >>> tax (VAT) when buying goods, but when we sell services we need to
> >>> apply for VAT.
> >>>
> >>> 2017 - 2018 was also the year I tried to find out how to
> behave as a ngo.
> >>>
> >>> Some contacts where initiated with UN Committee, discussions
> amongst
> >>> members how to work on a common tender, investigating what are the
> >>> obligations to report for the Belgian authorities in a way we
> could
> >>> recuperate the VAT.
> >>>
> >>> November 2017: preparation for first board meeting OSGeo Europe
> >>>
> >>> Board meeting 15 December 2017: no of the board members attended
> >>>
> >>> Jan- February 2018:
> >>>
> >>> Further administrative burden to check all the signatures and
> ID’s of
> >>> the board members,
> >>> the publication of bylaws of the organisation in the Belgian
> >>> registers. Opening the bank accounts.
> >>> (Since the terroristic attacks in Belgium, these procedures became
> >>> more difficult than before).
> >>> This took more time as expected.
> >>>
> >>> March 2018: Meeting in Brussels about the Copernicus program .
> Goal:
> >>> promote OSGeo and promote Copernicus @OSGeo.
> >>>
> >>> Jul 2018: FOSS4G Conference Guimrães:
> >>> Presentation of OSGeo EU initiative to promote OSGeo software and
> >>> projects on non FOSS events.
> >>>
> >>> Aug 2018: organisation of first initiative in collaboration with 5
> >>> OSGeo projects.
> >>> OSGeo Europe did the coordination of the INSPIRE 2018 event in
> Antwerp
> >>> and in return we could promote OSGeo on that event.
> >>>
> >>> 26 – 30 Aug: FOSS4G Bucharest: short status update by Joachim
> >>>
> >>> 19 September 2018 there was a first event with OSGeo on the
> INSPIRE
> >>> conference in Antwerp with a presentation about the eco-system of
> >>> OSGeo. OSGeo had one of the big boots during the conference.
> >>>
> >>> The goal was to promote OSGeo and the OSGeo projects, the
> companies
> >>> behind them and to create a European contact point for
> information to
> >>> the non FOSS world.
> >>>
> >>> With 5 paying contributors we had a budget of 10.000 EUR to
> organise
> >>> the event and the boot. By using the scale advantage, it was of
> >>> intrest to the participants, OSGeo Europe could present itself
> as host
> >>> and we had a small benefit of approx 1000 Eur to pay for the
> >>> administrative overhead (the accountant responsible for the
> official
> >>> registrations and publications).
> >>>
> >>> Plans for organising more events in Germany, France and other
> >>> countries did not materialize.
> >>>
> >>> But then all activities on my part were paused due to ...
> >>>
> >>> *(Some personal notes)*
> >>>
> >>> Nov 2018 - Nov 2019: black out for me (literally …)
> >>>
> >>> Dec 2019 – Feb 2020: personally: try to find the energy to
> reboot the
> >>> Local Chapter but I still missed the energy to do so.
> >>>
> >>> And then there was Covid…
> >>>
> >>> Engagement in a community (like OSGeo) takes a lot of energy.
> >>> Luckily this energy is fuelled by attending the activities,
> >>> participating conferences, meeting other people and work together
> >>> promoting FOSS and stimulating the FOSS industry.
> >>> When this falls away, like it was in times of Covid this is
> even more
> >>> challenging (see the presentation
> >>> https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/3MNBBB/
> <https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/3MNBBB/>).
> >>> For me personally, it was very hard to find the energy back.
> >>>
> >>> Personally I need a mission I want to work on.
> >>> The world is changing very fast, so the reasons I started
> engaging for
> >>> FOSS now more than 15 years ago, changed over time.
> >>> One of the strengths of FOSS is that it starts from
> *‘givving’*. But
> >>> to be able to *‘give’* you need others who receive and who are
> glad
> >>> with the *‘gift’*. I need to find the right focus where my
> >>> contribution helps our community forward, preferably with
> other people.
> >>>
> >>> It is this exercise we should do again.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> *Status of the ngo OSGeo Europe vzw*
> >>> To fulfil all the obligations the Belgian law describes, I asked a
> >>> account to help me with the legal stuff.
> >>> This costs some money.
> >>> Almost every year, laws change in Belgium (and I think also in
> >>> Europe), this also has impact on ngo’s.
> >>> The reporting becomes more demanding. f.i. a UBO-register is a new
> >>> obligation.
> (https://financien.belgium.be/nl/E-services/Ubo-register
> <https://financien.belgium.be/nl/E-services/Ubo-register>).
> >>> As we have an international board, this is a bit more complex than
> >>> with only Belgian id’s.
> >>>
> >>> Also, as intrest rates are below zero, banks that previously
> provided
> >>> free services now also charge a monthly fee. This also takes money
> >>> from our accounts.
> >>>
> >>> June 30, 2021 we closed our accounts with a claim on the VAT tax
> >>> department of dept to the accountant of 314,30 EURO. This is the
> >>> amount of money we get back from government because we aply to
> the VAT
> >>> rules.
> >>> But for the work done by the accountant the last 3 years, we
> have an
> >>> unpaid dept of 693,55 EURO. Every quarter this grows a bit.
> >>>
> >>> The status on the accounts is (OSGeo EU : 38,43 EUR, GRASS:
> 1389,57
> >>> EURO).
> >>>
> >>> The income of OSGeo Europe is zero.
> >>>
> >>> Without organising events that produce the necessary income
> and VAT
> >>> taxes that we can recuperate, this has no sense.
> >>>
> >>> So it is no rocket science that we only have 2 options (imho):
> >>>
> >>> Option a:
> >>> Find the money to pay for the current depts.
> >>> Find a way to get the minimal income to pay for the necessary
> Yearly
> >>> costs (+/- 1000 Euro / Year)
> >>> Organise elections for a new board
> >>> Define/update/reactivate the mission and activities OSGeo
> Europe wants
> >>> to do
> >>>
> >>> Option b:
> >>> Execute the liquidation of the ngo
> >>>
> >>> option b would be a real shame, since we've devoted a lot of
> energy
> >>> and community discussions to building this organization.
> >>> If there is no other option, then this is unfortunately the
> only way
> >>> to go.
> >>>
> >>> If option a is chosen, I want to organize the elections and
> help find
> >>> the new mission. I am also available to engage myself if I can
> >>> contribute to the mission and get the necessary energy from it.
> >>>
> >>> In case it becomes option b, I will take steps in October to
> organize
> >>> the liquidation.
> >>>
> >>> Any comments are welcome,
> >>> Thanks in advance for your contribution.
> >>>
> >>> Dirk
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 24/08/2021 09:07, Till Adams wrote:
> >>>> Hi Dirk,
> >>>>
> >>>> thanks for the "food" - that's a good idea. No, I am not going to
> >>>> Finland, it's tha AM on FOSS4G Buenos Aires ;-)
> >>>>
> >>>> Till
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Am 19.08.21 um 14:40 schrieb Dirk Frigne:
> >>>>> Hi Till,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I will give you some food for tought, later today.
> >>>>> Good to hear you go to Finland!
> >>>>> I've not yet decided.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dirk
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 19/08/2021 08:10, adams at osgeo.org
> <mailto:adams at osgeo.org> wrote:
> >>>>>> Dear European chapter!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I know there was not much activity, but at least we planned
> (and
> >>>>>> postproned) a FOSS4G Europe! Did any further activities
> under the
> >>>>>> European chapter umbrella take place and is someone willing to
> >>>>>> present them.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In case no one wants to, I can also present them, as I will
> join
> >>>>>> the AM
> >>>>>> anyway - but I need some "food" for this ;-9
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Regards, Till
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Am 18.08.21 um 18:13 schrieb Astrid Emde (OSGeo Secretary):
> >>>>>>> Hello Europe Local Chapter,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> we invite you and your team to present the local chapter
> at the OSGeo
> >>>>>>> AGM 2021.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This year we will publish the OSGeo AGM video in advance
> of FOSS4G
> >>>>>>> [1].
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You find all important information about the AGM at [5].
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It would be great if someone could volunteer to present
> the status at
> >>>>>>> the AGM. Please send me an email and I will provide an
> upload link
> >>>>>>> for
> >>>>>>> the video.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Timeline
> >>>>>>> -----------------------
> >>>>>>> - 2021-08-30: upload your video and update the AGM slides [2]
> >>>>>>> - 2021-09-10: AGM 2021 complete video will be published
> >>>>>>> - 2021-10-01: 11h Argentinian Time Zone (14:00 UTC) Join
> the OSGeo
> >>>>>>> AGM
> >>>>>>> 2021 meeting at FOSS4G [3] [4]
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you have questions or problems with the upload of your
> video
> >>>>>>> please
> >>>>>>> let us know secretary (at) osgeo (dot) org.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Stay safe,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Astrid Emde
> >>>>>>> OSGeo Secretary
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [1]
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDvJEf8hXbyeVqaYaS8sLvw
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDvJEf8hXbyeVqaYaS8sLvw>
> >>>>>>> [2]
> >>>>>>>
> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1brbBb7-sKRI6U4dZ7LKnBT_-NnWzyS2TaZqVXzy8RDo/edit#slide=id.p4
> <https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1brbBb7-sKRI6U4dZ7LKnBT_-NnWzyS2TaZqVXzy8RDo/edit#slide=id.p4>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [3]
> https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/WDEW3P/
> <https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/WDEW3P/>
> >>>>>>> [4]
> >>>>>>>
> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2021&month=10&day=1&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=51&p2=26&p3=49&p4=155&p5=217&p6=312&p7=250&p8=71&p9=248&p10=240
> <https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2021&month=10&day=1&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=51&p2=26&p3=49&p4=155&p5=217&p6=312&p7=250&p8=71&p9=248&p10=240>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> [5]
> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meeting_2021
> <https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meeting_2021>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Europe mailing list
> >>>>>> Europe at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Europe at lists.osgeo.org>
> >>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
> <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe>
> >>>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Europe mailing list
> >>>> Europe at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Europe at lists.osgeo.org>
> >>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
> <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe>
> >>>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Europe mailing list
> >> Europe at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Europe at lists.osgeo.org>
> >> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
> <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Europe mailing list
> > Europe at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Europe at lists.osgeo.org>
> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
> <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe>
> _______________________________________________
> Europe mailing list
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>
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