[Europe] Urgent: Status of [OSGeo Europe]
Angelos Tzotsos
gcpp.kalxas at gmail.com
Thu Sep 9 01:17:40 PDT 2021
Hi all,
I think there is value in keeping the NGO:
I recently talked with ESA (there is a possibility for a sponsorship)
and it can only be done through an EU legal entity. I assume, this would
also be needed in other cases.
How about we pass the control of the NGO directly to the board and try
to find a EU based volunteer as a secretary?
Best,
Angelos
On 9/9/21 11:03 AM, Till Adams wrote:
> Maria,
>
> many thanks for your repl - at least one ;-)
>
> I totally agree with you and I see the same lack of time/energy on my side.
>
> Maybe the first step nevertheless should be transforming the NGO "OSGeo
> Europe" to another format, that does not cost us anything?
>
> This gives us time for a chance to re-start and maybe also time to find
> some active people?
>
> Till
>
>
> Am 09.09.21 um 09:54 schrieb María Arias de Reyna:
>> Hi Till,
>>
>> Thanks for the effort.
>>
>> Personally I don't have the bandwidth to invest relevant time here. I
>> still thinks this is important, that we should be closer to the
>> European Commission to push FOSS enforcement laws, that we should
>> improve the business network among European companies and, of course,
>> that we should be more active in general.
>>
>> But as much as it saddens me, unless we inject here "fresh blood" or
>> some company sees the benefit of investing their effort (for the
>> political and business?), I doubt we will get many volunteers.
>> Specially during the pandemic. We are all tired and overworked with
>> personal things.
>>
>> Maybe we should try to contact universities to get younger volunteers
>> who are looking for a place to help and are not already busy with
>> other duties?
>>
>> Cheers!
>> María.
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 9, 2021 at 9:41 AM Till Adams <till.adams at fossgis.de
>> <mailto:till.adams at fossgis.de>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Europe list and especially hello Dirk,
>>
>> I fear that the silence after my email (see below) is
>> self-explaining. I
>> think we should execute the liquidation of OSgeo Europe (or
>> transfer it
>> to another status, e.g. a loose group of willing people without any
>> organisational status).
>>
>> Regards, Till
>>
>>
>> Am 01.09.21 um 15:39 schrieb Till Adams:
>> > Dear Dirk and @OSGeo Europe again,
>> >
>> >
>> > I now had the time to look little deeper into what Dirk wrote.
>> Sorry for
>> > bothering you again, but I think we are in a situation, where
>> decisions
>> > need to be taken:
>> >
>> > First of all, regarding our presentation at OSGeo's AM: I would say,
>> > that we have nothing really interesting (and new) to present to the
>> > community, so I would propose to skip the part of OSgeo-Europe and
>> > instead of that, take a look on ourselves:
>> >
>> > If you browse to the end of Dirks email (see below), he claerly
>> says,
>> > what needs to be decided:
>> >
>> > Option a: Restart of OSgeo Europe with "fresh" people, new ideas
>> and new
>> > power
>> >
>> > Option b: give up and execute liquidation
>> >
>> > I totally agree with Dirk, that "Opition b" is the least option
>> we all
>> > want. But - as you all should know - it is impossible to power a
>> > community without people. Don't understand me wrong: This is not
>> > fingerpointing to anybody !! -- I know that I did not give much
>> input to
>> > OSGeo Europe in the past two years - to say it carefully ;-).
>> >
>> > The question is:
>> > Is there still a community around OSGeo Europe? Are there
>> people, that
>> > have power, ideas and time for a re-start?
>> >
>> > What about you?
>> > Are you/we willing to dare a re-start of OSGeo-Europe?
>> > Where are the "fresh" people with new ideas and a lot of power??
>> >
>> > Maybe FOSS4G BA gives a good opportunity for a community meeting?
>> >
>> > Please comment.
>> >
>> > Till
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Am 31.08.21 um 16:46 schrieb Till Adams:
>> >> Dear Dirk,
>> >>
>> >> thanks for the input - but: No, no one is going physically to
>> BA, me
>> >> neither. FOSS4G BA is an onlien conference ;-)
>> >>
>> >> All I could do is put your thoughtsi nto slides, record it and
>> send it
>> >> to Vicky, so that she can add it to the AM video.
>> >>
>> >> I will ask her for some more time and will do.
>> >>
>> >> Till
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Am 29.08.21 um 12:08 schrieb Dirk Frigne:
>> >>> Hi Till,
>> >>>
>> >>> It took me a bit longer that I wanted. I hope it was worth the
>> waiting...
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Dear list,
>> >>>
>> >>> As a preparation for the AGM of Friday 01 October 11:00 AM AST or
>> >>> 16:00 CET, I prepared some input.
>> >>> Till will go physically to Buenos Aires. I will not make it
>> but I'll
>> >>> try to connect online if possible.
>> >>>
>> >>> It would be good if Till could present the Local European
>> Chapter on
>> >>> stage during the AGM.
>> >>>
>> >>> It would also be good if there is a specific meeting about the
>> future
>> >>> of OSGeo Local Chapter, as we hit some damage during the last
>> 2 years.
>> >>>
>> >>> For those new to the content, a short recap:
>> >>>
>> >>> *History* (See also:
>> >>> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Local_Chapter_EU_History
>> <https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Local_Chapter_EU_History> + update)
>> >>> (please feel free to update where I missed some activities or
>> actions)
>> >>>
>> >>> the first ideas for OSGeo Europe Chapter were launched in 2014.
>> >>> Actually the first idea’s started in 2013 on the FOSS4G CEE
>> Conference
>> >>> in Bucharest.
>> >>>
>> >>> In 2015 there was some need to promote open standards for ICT
>> >>> procurement in Europe.
>> >>> Proposal to start an initiative on the Foss4G conference in
>> Bonn 2016.
>> >>> Bylaws discussed and prepared during 2016 / 2017.
>> >>>
>> >>> *Birth of the organisation*
>> >>> Bylaws signed 20 July 2021 during the FOSS4G conference in Paris.
>> >>>
>> >>> OSGeo was founded with a legal status as a non-profit organisation
>> >>> based on Belgium law. We have 2 bankaccounts and a legal
>> status with
>> >>> rights and obligations.
>> >>> One of the interesting rights is that we don’t have to pay
>> value added
>> >>> tax (VAT) when buying goods, but when we sell services we need to
>> >>> apply for VAT.
>> >>>
>> >>> 2017 - 2018 was also the year I tried to find out how to
>> behave as a ngo.
>> >>>
>> >>> Some contacts where initiated with UN Committee, discussions
>> amongst
>> >>> members how to work on a common tender, investigating what are the
>> >>> obligations to report for the Belgian authorities in a way we
>> could
>> >>> recuperate the VAT.
>> >>>
>> >>> November 2017: preparation for first board meeting OSGeo Europe
>> >>>
>> >>> Board meeting 15 December 2017: no of the board members attended
>> >>>
>> >>> Jan- February 2018:
>> >>>
>> >>> Further administrative burden to check all the signatures and
>> ID’s of
>> >>> the board members,
>> >>> the publication of bylaws of the organisation in the Belgian
>> >>> registers. Opening the bank accounts.
>> >>> (Since the terroristic attacks in Belgium, these procedures became
>> >>> more difficult than before).
>> >>> This took more time as expected.
>> >>>
>> >>> March 2018: Meeting in Brussels about the Copernicus program .
>> Goal:
>> >>> promote OSGeo and promote Copernicus @OSGeo.
>> >>>
>> >>> Jul 2018: FOSS4G Conference Guimrães:
>> >>> Presentation of OSGeo EU initiative to promote OSGeo software and
>> >>> projects on non FOSS events.
>> >>>
>> >>> Aug 2018: organisation of first initiative in collaboration with 5
>> >>> OSGeo projects.
>> >>> OSGeo Europe did the coordination of the INSPIRE 2018 event in
>> Antwerp
>> >>> and in return we could promote OSGeo on that event.
>> >>>
>> >>> 26 – 30 Aug: FOSS4G Bucharest: short status update by Joachim
>> >>>
>> >>> 19 September 2018 there was a first event with OSGeo on the
>> INSPIRE
>> >>> conference in Antwerp with a presentation about the eco-system of
>> >>> OSGeo. OSGeo had one of the big boots during the conference.
>> >>>
>> >>> The goal was to promote OSGeo and the OSGeo projects, the
>> companies
>> >>> behind them and to create a European contact point for
>> information to
>> >>> the non FOSS world.
>> >>>
>> >>> With 5 paying contributors we had a budget of 10.000 EUR to
>> organise
>> >>> the event and the boot. By using the scale advantage, it was of
>> >>> intrest to the participants, OSGeo Europe could present itself
>> as host
>> >>> and we had a small benefit of approx 1000 Eur to pay for the
>> >>> administrative overhead (the accountant responsible for the
>> official
>> >>> registrations and publications).
>> >>>
>> >>> Plans for organising more events in Germany, France and other
>> >>> countries did not materialize.
>> >>>
>> >>> But then all activities on my part were paused due to ...
>> >>>
>> >>> *(Some personal notes)*
>> >>>
>> >>> Nov 2018 - Nov 2019: black out for me (literally …)
>> >>>
>> >>> Dec 2019 – Feb 2020: personally: try to find the energy to
>> reboot the
>> >>> Local Chapter but I still missed the energy to do so.
>> >>>
>> >>> And then there was Covid…
>> >>>
>> >>> Engagement in a community (like OSGeo) takes a lot of energy.
>> >>> Luckily this energy is fuelled by attending the activities,
>> >>> participating conferences, meeting other people and work together
>> >>> promoting FOSS and stimulating the FOSS industry.
>> >>> When this falls away, like it was in times of Covid this is
>> even more
>> >>> challenging (see the presentation
>> >>> https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/3MNBBB/
>> <https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/3MNBBB/>).
>> >>> For me personally, it was very hard to find the energy back.
>> >>>
>> >>> Personally I need a mission I want to work on.
>> >>> The world is changing very fast, so the reasons I started
>> engaging for
>> >>> FOSS now more than 15 years ago, changed over time.
>> >>> One of the strengths of FOSS is that it starts from
>> *‘givving’*. But
>> >>> to be able to *‘give’* you need others who receive and who are
>> glad
>> >>> with the *‘gift’*. I need to find the right focus where my
>> >>> contribution helps our community forward, preferably with
>> other people.
>> >>>
>> >>> It is this exercise we should do again.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> *Status of the ngo OSGeo Europe vzw*
>> >>> To fulfil all the obligations the Belgian law describes, I asked a
>> >>> account to help me with the legal stuff.
>> >>> This costs some money.
>> >>> Almost every year, laws change in Belgium (and I think also in
>> >>> Europe), this also has impact on ngo’s.
>> >>> The reporting becomes more demanding. f.i. a UBO-register is a new
>> >>> obligation.
>> (https://financien.belgium.be/nl/E-services/Ubo-register
>> <https://financien.belgium.be/nl/E-services/Ubo-register>).
>> >>> As we have an international board, this is a bit more complex than
>> >>> with only Belgian id’s.
>> >>>
>> >>> Also, as intrest rates are below zero, banks that previously
>> provided
>> >>> free services now also charge a monthly fee. This also takes money
>> >>> from our accounts.
>> >>>
>> >>> June 30, 2021 we closed our accounts with a claim on the VAT tax
>> >>> department of dept to the accountant of 314,30 EURO. This is the
>> >>> amount of money we get back from government because we aply to
>> the VAT
>> >>> rules.
>> >>> But for the work done by the accountant the last 3 years, we
>> have an
>> >>> unpaid dept of 693,55 EURO. Every quarter this grows a bit.
>> >>>
>> >>> The status on the accounts is (OSGeo EU : 38,43 EUR, GRASS:
>> 1389,57
>> >>> EURO).
>> >>>
>> >>> The income of OSGeo Europe is zero.
>> >>>
>> >>> Without organising events that produce the necessary income
>> and VAT
>> >>> taxes that we can recuperate, this has no sense.
>> >>>
>> >>> So it is no rocket science that we only have 2 options (imho):
>> >>>
>> >>> Option a:
>> >>> Find the money to pay for the current depts.
>> >>> Find a way to get the minimal income to pay for the necessary
>> Yearly
>> >>> costs (+/- 1000 Euro / Year)
>> >>> Organise elections for a new board
>> >>> Define/update/reactivate the mission and activities OSGeo
>> Europe wants
>> >>> to do
>> >>>
>> >>> Option b:
>> >>> Execute the liquidation of the ngo
>> >>>
>> >>> option b would be a real shame, since we've devoted a lot of
>> energy
>> >>> and community discussions to building this organization.
>> >>> If there is no other option, then this is unfortunately the
>> only way
>> >>> to go.
>> >>>
>> >>> If option a is chosen, I want to organize the elections and
>> help find
>> >>> the new mission. I am also available to engage myself if I can
>> >>> contribute to the mission and get the necessary energy from it.
>> >>>
>> >>> In case it becomes option b, I will take steps in October to
>> organize
>> >>> the liquidation.
>> >>>
>> >>> Any comments are welcome,
>> >>> Thanks in advance for your contribution.
>> >>>
>> >>> Dirk
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 24/08/2021 09:07, Till Adams wrote:
>> >>>> Hi Dirk,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> thanks for the "food" - that's a good idea. No, I am not going to
>> >>>> Finland, it's tha AM on FOSS4G Buenos Aires ;-)
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Till
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Am 19.08.21 um 14:40 schrieb Dirk Frigne:
>> >>>>> Hi Till,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I will give you some food for tought, later today.
>> >>>>> Good to hear you go to Finland!
>> >>>>> I've not yet decided.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Dirk
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 19/08/2021 08:10, adams at osgeo.org
>> <mailto:adams at osgeo.org> wrote:
>> >>>>>> Dear European chapter!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I know there was not much activity, but at least we planned
>> (and
>> >>>>>> postproned) a FOSS4G Europe! Did any further activities
>> under the
>> >>>>>> European chapter umbrella take place and is someone willing to
>> >>>>>> present them.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> In case no one wants to, I can also present them, as I will
>> join
>> >>>>>> the AM
>> >>>>>> anyway - but I need some "food" for this ;-9
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Regards, Till
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Am 18.08.21 um 18:13 schrieb Astrid Emde (OSGeo Secretary):
>> >>>>>>> Hello Europe Local Chapter,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> we invite you and your team to present the local chapter
>> at the OSGeo
>> >>>>>>> AGM 2021.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> This year we will publish the OSGeo AGM video in advance
>> of FOSS4G
>> >>>>>>> [1].
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> You find all important information about the AGM at [5].
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> It would be great if someone could volunteer to present
>> the status at
>> >>>>>>> the AGM. Please send me an email and I will provide an
>> upload link
>> >>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>> the video.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Timeline
>> >>>>>>> -----------------------
>> >>>>>>> - 2021-08-30: upload your video and update the AGM slides [2]
>> >>>>>>> - 2021-09-10: AGM 2021 complete video will be published
>> >>>>>>> - 2021-10-01: 11h Argentinian Time Zone (14:00 UTC) Join
>> the OSGeo
>> >>>>>>> AGM
>> >>>>>>> 2021 meeting at FOSS4G [3] [4]
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> If you have questions or problems with the upload of your
>> video
>> >>>>>>> please
>> >>>>>>> let us know secretary (at) osgeo (dot) org.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Stay safe,
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Astrid Emde
>> >>>>>>> OSGeo Secretary
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> [1]
>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDvJEf8hXbyeVqaYaS8sLvw
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDvJEf8hXbyeVqaYaS8sLvw>
>> >>>>>>> [2]
>> >>>>>>>
>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1brbBb7-sKRI6U4dZ7LKnBT_-NnWzyS2TaZqVXzy8RDo/edit#slide=id.p4
>> <https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1brbBb7-sKRI6U4dZ7LKnBT_-NnWzyS2TaZqVXzy8RDo/edit#slide=id.p4>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> [3]
>> https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/WDEW3P/
>> <https://callforpapers.2021.foss4g.org/foss4g2021/talk/WDEW3P/>
>> >>>>>>> [4]
>> >>>>>>>
>> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2021&month=10&day=1&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=51&p2=26&p3=49&p4=155&p5=217&p6=312&p7=250&p8=71&p9=248&p10=240
>> <https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2021&month=10&day=1&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=51&p2=26&p3=49&p4=155&p5=217&p6=312&p7=250&p8=71&p9=248&p10=240>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> [5]
>> https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meeting_2021
>> <https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Annual_General_Meeting_2021>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> Europe mailing list
>> >>>>>> Europe at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Europe at lists.osgeo.org>
>> >>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Europe mailing list
>> >>>> Europe at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Europe at lists.osgeo.org>
>> >>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe
>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/europe>
>> >>>>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>
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--
Angelos Tzotsos, PhD
President
Open Source Geospatial Foundation
http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos
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