[Foss4g2009] Specs for a machine for the CCIP?
Cameron Shorter
cameron.shorter at gmail.com
Fri Jan 23 02:37:52 EST 2009
Answers inline (to both Bruce and Ricardo)
Bruce Bannerman wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I'm now back on deck with this again.
>
> Some good ideas Ricardo.
>
> I'd like to point out that VMs may also be potentially used by
> proprietary solutions or hybrid OS/proprietary solutions. Therefore I
> suspect that we'll need a box(es) with decent capacity.
>
> To me a benefit of the virtual route as that we can theoretically
> compare apples with apples.
>
> The Amazon solution has potential, however how can we ensure that each
> solution is getting equal computing resources?
>
> I understand that the CCIP is now being managed via OGC. ***Greg***
> can you please confirm this?
Yes, OGC are coordinating the CCIP.
>
> If that is the case then this email thread should really be moved to
> the OGC CCIP list.
Yes, please continue this conversation on the CCIP list.
>
> Finally, I understand that the CCIP has superceded the Integration
> Showcase and that the Integration Showcase no longer exists as a
> seperate concept. Can someone correct me if I'm wrong (sorry, I've
> been enjoying Pisco Sours for the last two months and not paying any
> attention to these lists... ;-) ) ?
correct.
>
> Bruce Bannerman
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 10:57 AM, Ricardo Pinho
> <rpinho_eng at yahoo.com.br <mailto:rpinho_eng at yahoo.com.br>> wrote:
>
> Cameron,
>
> Thank you for your kind words, but I am a "starter" just like
> everyone else on
> this new exciting "virtualizing GIS" adventure! ;-)
>
> > your opinion holds a lot of weight.
> > So thank you for sharing your thoughts.
>
> You are welcome!
> Since you are willing to ear, let me share one more idea:
>
> "HEALTHY COMPETITION!"
>
> One of the things I loved the most from FOSS4G2008 was the:
>
> Web Map Server Performance: Geoserver vs Mapserver
> http://presentations.opengeo.org/2008_FOSS4G/WebMapServerPerformance-FOSS4G2008.pdf
>
> Congratulations must be sent to: Justin Deolivera, Andrea Aime,
> Steve Lime, Paul Ramsey, and
> Frank Warmerdam (and others that workedon the Project).
> http://blog.geoserver.org/2008/10/22/geoserver-benchmarks-at-foss4g-2008/
>
Yes, great idea, and a number of others have also recognised that the
CCIP would be an excellent platform for project comparison.
>
>
> Since:
> "The CCIP
> is a server with multiple virtual machines providing a number of
> different
> geospatial Web services that implement the OGC's open interface
> and encoding
> standards."
>
> It would be very interesting to join these 2 ideas (web
> performance + virtual machine) and
> provide a "boost up (optimized) virtual machine" to any
> person/company/institution
> willing to participate on CCIP.
>
> This VM could be a unique CORE startup solution, with a maximum of
> software
> pre-installed. So that participants could config and adapt it to
> their GIS
> OpenStandard applications.
>
> Or it couldbe delivered with several "FLAVORS", by selecting a
> unique optimized software
> group, and achieve some (good) competition with each other.
>
> I personallyprefer the second option and think that on production
> it could perform better
> then a core one! For start, I can suggest 3 or 4 VM flavors,
> gathering the main
> "Kids on the block": ;-) (just like Justin Deolivera and Andrea
> Aime did on their work)
>
> 1. "VM OpenGeo-Geoserver"
> with: PostgreSQL/PostGIS + TomcatJava/Geoserver + GeoWebCache + …
>
> 2. "VM OSGeo-Mapserver"
> with: PostgreSQL/PostGIS + Apache/Mapserver + TileCache + …
>
> 3. "VM OSGeo-Degree"
> with: PostgreSQL/PostGIS + TomcatJava/Degree + …
>
>
> 4. "VM OSGeo-MapguideOS"
> with: (MySQL? Oracle?) + Mapguide Open Source + …
> (Isn't this VM already available?)
>
>
> Don't know what do you think of this idea, but I'm in with GISVM
> to join forces with FOSS4G2009
> to develop a CORE/FLAVOR solution. It all depends on the kind of
> support it
> would be provided from OSGeo (and OpenGeo). I'm not able to do
> this alone with
> the current time table, and without direct collaboration from
> developers!
>
I'm open to these ideas, and am hoping over the next few weeks that we
will see a number of developers joining the CCIP list and contributing
to the discussion.
My suggestion is that for our first release (foss4g 2009), we keep our
goals simple, understandable and easily achievable.
>
> And for the hardware and platform infrastructure. I can suggest,
> someone from FOSS4G2009
> organization to attend to:
> http://www.vmworld.com/community/conferences/europe2009
> There he could try to negotiate a sponsor, hosting platform
> (VMware) and hardware (HP) solution
> for CCIP project. As they say: "Virtually anything is possible at
> VMworld Europe 2009" :-)
>
> Another possible and interesting hosting solution is "Amazon
> Elastic Compute Cloud":
> http://aws.amazon.com/ec2/
> I haven't tried it yet, but it seems affordable, flexible and
> reliable! (amazon!!!)
>
Might be worth running this idea past the list in a few weeks time and
see if there are some Europeans interested in attending VMworld.
>
>
> Just a small contribution…
> Cheers,
> Ricardo Pinho
>
>
> ----- Mensagem original ----
> De: Cameron Shorter <cameron.shorter at gmail.com
> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>
> Para: Ricardo Pinho <rpinho_eng at yahoo.com.br
> <mailto:rpinho_eng at yahoo.com.br>>
> Cc: Frank Warmerdam <warmerdam at pobox.com
> <mailto:warmerdam at pobox.com>>; foss4g2009
> <foss4g2009 at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:foss4g2009 at lists.osgeo.org>>
> Enviadas: Terça-feira, 20 de Janeiro de 2009 0:52:37
> Assunto: Re: [Foss4g2009] Specs for a machine for the CCIP?
>
> Ricardo,
> Based on your experience and track record in marrying Geospatial
> Software and Virtual machines, your opinion holds a lot of weight.
>
> So thank you for sharing your thoughts.
>
> And yes, we would be delighted to have you play a significant role
> in the CCIP and guide its development.
>
> Ricardo Pinho wrote:
> > Hi Cameron and Frank,
> >
> > As you probably know, Virtualization is presently a very active
> area of business, with several players (big ones) trying
> > to get on the top, so it would be very easy to get a sponsor!
> > Please carefully read the following pages:
> > http://www.virtualization.info/radar/
> >
> http://www.virtualization.info/2008/10/microsoft-already-took-23-of.html
> > For VM technology you can choose from a variety of solutions:
> > VMware, Sun, Microsoft VirtualPC & HyperV, Xen & VirtualIron,
> Linux KVM,
> > … an endless list!!!
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_platform_virtual_machines
> > Well, I must agree with Frank, VMware are the original guys,
> the oldest on the market
> > and who offers today the best desktop and server performance,
> features and
> > stability (I suppose!). So they are a very good option, and that
> was mainly why
> > I have chosen VMware for the GISVM project! (no sponsor reason!!!)
> >
> > Never the less, it would be desirable to use a standard and
> compatible solution, so it
> > could be run on any technology. The closer thing I know to this
> is the work
> > done on: www.dmf.org <http://www.dmf.org/>
> > OVF:
> > http://www.dmtf.org/standards/published_documents/DSP0243_1.0.0.pdf
> > http://www.vmware.com/appliances/learn/ovf.html
> > and VMAN:
> > http://www.dmtf.org/initiatives/vman_initiative/ But in
> practice, I compare this to the early years of OGC, just a big
> hope! ;-)
> > One more reason why vmware should be considered, is that VMWare
> is collaborating with the
> > Ubuntu distro, on their JeOS version! An advantage I am
> currently using on the
> > next GISVM release that I hope to introduce at ESLAP 2009 (
> OpenSource in Portuguese
> > Public Administration Encounter - 28.Jan ).
> > http://mapas.igeo.pt/eslap2009/Eslap2009_Prog.html
> > Now, concerning the CCIP project. I must confess that, until
> know, I didn't quite understood how you plan to execute that
> excellent idea!
> > But I would be very pleased to participate on that project and
> include all work done on the GISVM.
> > Only if you think it would be adequate, of course!
> > Cheers,
> > Ricardo Pinho
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Mensagem original ----
> > De: Cameron Shorter <cameron.shorter at gmail.com
> <mailto:cameron.shorter at gmail.com>>
> > Para: Frank Warmerdam <warmerdam at pobox.com
> <mailto:warmerdam at pobox.com>>
> > Cc: foss4g2009 <foss4g2009 at lists.osgeo.org
> <mailto:foss4g2009 at lists.osgeo.org>>
> > Enviadas: Segunda-feira, 19 de Janeiro de 2009 22:27:41
> > Assunto: Re: [Foss4g2009] Specs for a machine for the CCIP?
> >
> > The VM technology has not been specified yet. I've heard a
> number of people speak up for VMWare and we will try to get VMWare
> to load us a license for the conference in return for marketing.
> >
> > Re memory:
> > * I'm hoping that all virtual installs can be active for the
> duration of the conference. Is that a realistic expectation from
> based on hardware constraints?
> >
> > Re adding other servers:
> > I expect this to be an area of debate. Our requirements are:
> > 1. Demonstrate interoperability
> > 2. Allow side by side comparison of applications (some vendors
> might not like this). Specifically, make hardware specs equal so
> we can focus on the software.
> > 3. Provide a legacy testbed which can be passed on to future
> conferences with minimal re-configuration
> >
> > So maybe we will ask all vendors to build their image on a
> virtual server, but that they can bring their own server as well,
> or purchase their own server if they wish.
> >
> > Frank Warmerdam wrote:
> >
> >> Cameron Shorter wrote:
> >>
> >>> For background the CCIP is defined here:
> http://external.opengis.org/twiki_public/bin/view/ClimateChallenge2009/WebHome
> Basically: One server with multiple virtual machines
> >>>
> >>> As yet, we have not defined our hardware requirements, and
> everything is on the table as an option. (Especially since my
> experience with hardware is largely limited to installing linux on
> computers I've found in dumpsters).
> >>>
> >>> So please speak up with all the advise you can fire at us.
> >>>
> >> Cameron,
> >>
> >> Ah, OK. Is there a defined VM technology? VMWare seems to be
> the most
> >> widely supported and well known. Presumably Win32 (perhaps XP?) VM
> >> instances will be available as well as 32bit linux instances?
> >>
> >> Assuming that not all of the instances really need to be active
> at once,
> >> I would hope that the memory requirements will not be the sum
> of the
> >> memory requirements of the VMs. Hopefully you would get at
> least 8GB
> >> of RAM which should be enough to have several active VMs with
> fairly
> >> beefy software running.
> >>
> >> Ultimately, I hope you will keep an option for some
> participants to provide
> >> their own server that can be plugged into the network but I do
> like the
> >> convenience of a multi-VM main server as long as it is beefy
> enough.
> >>
> >> Best regards,
> >>
> >
> >
> > -- Cameron Shorter
> > Geospatial Systems Architect
> > Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
> > Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
> >
> > Think Globally, Fix Locally
> > Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
> > http://www.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com/>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Foss4g2009 mailing list
> > Foss4g2009 at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Foss4g2009 at lists.osgeo.org>
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/foss4g2009
> >
> >
> >
> > Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> > http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com <http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com/>
> >
>
>
> -- Cameron Shorter
> Geospatial Systems Architect
> Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
> Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
>
> Think Globally, Fix Locally
> Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
> http://www.lisasoft.com <http://www.lisasoft.com/>
>
>
> Veja quais são os assuntos do momento no Yahoo! +Buscados
> http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com <http://br.maisbuscados.yahoo.com/>
> _______________________________________________
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> Foss4g2009 at lists.osgeo.org <mailto:Foss4g2009 at lists.osgeo.org>
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/foss4g2009
>
>
--
Cameron Shorter
Geospatial Systems Architect
Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
Think Globally, Fix Locally
Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
http://www.lisasoft.com
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