[OSGeodata] FOIA and VMAP1 anyone?

[Pericles S. Nacionales]

The big question is why is a copyrighted material included in a public domain 
dataset?  Can ESRI even really contest the use of this dataset?  If ESRI is 
indeed trying to claim copyright on parts of a dataset, shouldn't that part 
be removed from the public domain?

Opening up another can of worms...

-Perry

On Monday 10 July 2006 13:03, Putler, Dan wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> It strikes me that the issues of ESRI's copyrighted material in VMAP0
> is similar to the issues concerning the world country border layer
> that is presented by Schuyler in Mapping Hacks, and is available from
> the mappinghacks.com site.  There are some differences between the
> detail of the layers (with VMAP0's 1:100000 resolution appearing to
> be somewhat more detailed), but the basic nature of the content is
> fairly similar. Was ESRI contacted to gain approval for the use of
> the layer prior to the publication of Mapping Hacks (which seems to
> constitute a commercial use)? If yes, it would seem logical to
> contact the same folks at ESRI concerning their content in VMAP0.
>
> Dan
>
> On 10-Jul-06, at 8:36 AM, Jo Walsh wrote:
> > dear Ned,
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 10, 2006 at 09:14:18AM -0400, Ned Horning wrote:
> >> I forgot to ask about the VMAP0 copyright issue. What exactly is the
> >> question? The license agreement is in the readme file. If there are
> >> questions about what can be done with these data isn't it an issue of
> >> interpretation of the license? Wouldn't a lawyer be a better place
> >> to start?
> >
> > K, the question here is the extent to which datasets derived from
> > bits of VMap0, possibly combined with other more 'open' (in terms of
> > rights to freely re-use and redistribute) datasets, are subject to
> > 'infection' in license terms by non-commercial use clause such as
> > ESRI dictates for its 'intellectual property' within VMap0.
> >
> > I agree this is partly a question for a lawyer; OpenStreetmap are also
> > grappling with the general question of 'derived works'. But this is
> > also a specific question for NGA because -
> >
> > * Markus mentioned in the last meeting he has seen some wording
> > associated with VMap0 that suggested license restrictions did not
> > apply. I think this may have been a missing-context problem - for
> > us.mil 'Limited distribution' means something specific re. geodata -
> > but it makes sense to check.
> >
> > * The VMap0 readmes are at once very specific and very vague about
> > exactly what is copyright ESRI in VMap0:
> >
> > [[ These features are the Boundaries Coverage (bnd) edge features
> >  representing administrative unit boundaries that have an FACC code
> >  (f_code) of FA000 and an attribute value of 26 in
> >  the USE field - First Order Administrative Division features.  Also
> >  included are Boundary face features with an FACC code (f_code) of
> > FA001
> >  and an  administrative unit name present in the NAM field.  Within
> > the
> >  Reference  Library (rference) the Library Reference (libref),
> > Place Name
> >  (placenam), and Political Boundary (polbnd) Coverages also contain
> > intellectual
> >  property of ESRI. ]]
> >
> > That political boundaries 'contain intellectual property of ESRI' is
> > a broad answer for a lot of data, which in the worst case OSGeo would
> > be unable to redistribute if we wanted to maintain a "truly open" data
> > policy guaranteeing rights to reuse and redistribution without
> > hindrance.
> >
> > Maybe it's logic chopping to push it this far. Asking ESRI is an
> > interesting idea! I am curious now as to what their response would be.
> >
> >> I'm no expert on these maters so maybe I'm missing the point?
> >
> > Me neither! Perhaps formalised expertise is overestimated. Emphasis on
> > open license as guarantee of or constraint on freedom, is legally
> > untested.
> > An effort such as http://freedomdefined.org/Definition takes a
> > tangential approach. Like the Free Software Definition it very
> > specifically includes a clause "it *must not* limit commercial use of
> > the work" that must appply to free/open data.
> >
> > I don't know how others feel about including non-commercial use
> > licensed data in an "open" geodata repository. I don't necessarily
> > want to spend a lot of time talking about it! (For personal preference
> > / IANAL reasons, not dictatorial reasons ;) ) And that's the main
> > reason I would like to know, from NGA or ESRI, *exactly* what, not
> > just generally what, ESRI claims copyright on inside VMap0, so it
> > could if necessary be removed / replaced with other more 'open'
> > sources.
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> >
> > jo

-- 
Pericles S. Nacionales
Conservation Biology Program
University of Minnesota
e-mail: naci0002 at umn.edu