[Ica-osgeo-labs] Open GIS Academics and educators please apply to AAG call before June 15th, 2015

Thu Jun 11 09:45:58 PDT 2015

Thanks Anthony. We will discuss your points in Como @ FOSS4G EU and see if we can provide a more compelling value for membership.

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From: ica-osgeo-labs-bounces at lists.osgeo.org [ica-osgeo-labs-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Robinson [acr181 at psu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:40 AM
To: ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [Ica-osgeo-labs] Open GIS Academics and educators please apply to AAG call before June 15th, 2015

Yeah, about that! I've been watching the discussion regarding what lab activity is required and what membership means with eager eyes. I would like to be able to make the case to my colleagues to join. I do think clarity on what activity means and what the benefits are would be helpful.

I know that the answers to these questions are under debate here. When I look at the criteria I can see that we have been doing all of those things, so that's not a worry I have. Instead I'd rather know that by committing to something we're doing something tangible for our students. Every move I make is evaluated in terms of whether or not it adds value to the educational experience for our students. Since we already do the things that GeoForAll asks for, I will be asked to explain what we gain from setting up yet another website and assigning someone to developing an annual report (a big deal for a program that has over a thousand students and dozens of faculty - that's not easy to summarize).

I also can't just sign up Penn State by my decision alone. It would have to be vetted by the Department, College, risk management, etc... If our university ends up on a list of institutions in a press release from GeoForAll, I have to answer to that, and that's perhaps the biggest question to sort out for my specific context.

-A.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Phillip Davis" <pdavis at delmar.edu>
To: "Anthony Robinson" <acr181 at psu.edu>, ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 12:15:42 PM
Subject: RE: [Ica-osgeo-labs] Open GIS Academics and educators please apply to AAG call before June 15th, 2015

In the meantime we would love to see a green dot on State College PA on our own map: http://www.geoforall.org/how_to_join/

________________________________________
From: ica-osgeo-labs-bounces at lists.osgeo.org [ica-osgeo-labs-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Anthony Robinson [acr181 at psu.edu]
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:09 AM
To: ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org
Subject: Re: [Ica-osgeo-labs] Open GIS Academics and educators please apply to AAG call before June 15th, 2015

Well, the Maps MOOC I teach doesn't focus at all on desktop GIS (I do point people to QGIS for the final project as an option for those who want to go deeper than AGOL or CartoDB), otherwise that would be great. So it's not within the scope of the course. There would be no "side by side" comparison possible because the labs are focused on exploring geographical concepts that are much more general using a WebGIS.

In a five week intro course with thousands of complete novices, I have found that sticking to browser-based mapping that requires no downloading, is localized in a zillion languages, and emphasizes usability is a good way to go. The closest FOSS alternative to the free AGOL option is probably WorldMap, so that would be the best side-by-side candidate at the moment. Plenty of students try out CartoDB and QGIS for the final project phase, and we talk about FOSS4G options throughout the class - though I observe that there's far more interest in community mapping via OSM though than any other open geospatial effort. I think the greatest unrealized potential right now lies within making a MOOC around understanding and contributing to OSM. Weaving OSM into ConnectED would be one of several general principles that could be included in a proposal to Esri to collaborate, for example.

In our for-credit curriculum we do exactly as you describe, more and more often. That is the future I am working toward. I want to move beyond boxing OS/proprietary solutions into separate courses, and instead blend all options together across the entire curriculum, as I see that as more reflective of current/future professional practice than anything else.

Cheers,

-A.

________________________________
From: "Phillip Davis" <pdavis at delmar.edu>
To: "Anthony Robinson" <acr181 at psu.edu>
Cc: ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:55:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Ica-osgeo-labs] Open GIS Academics and educators please apply to AAG call before June 15th, 2015

I like your idea. Perhaps Sucith wants to take that role and approach Esri. We value everyone's participation and respect Penn's leading role in geoeducation.

One way we could collaborate Anthony is for you to subsume our QGIS labs into the next PSU GeoMOOC to offer future learners a side by side feature by feature comparison. Imagine the learning value of solving same project with a mix of solutions thereby mirroring real world awaiting them?

On Jun 11, 2015 10:49 AM, Anthony Robinson <acr181 at psu.edu> wrote:

That may well become the case (the current experience is that... there is no lab experience at all for anyone in the vast majority of high schools), but I don't think the AP GIS&T course is the place to wage that battle. I think it'd be a mistake for any specific vendor to be mentioned in an AP course spec that effectively becomes a national standard.

I'll repeat my suggestion here from before to approach Esri about joining forces on the ConnectED effort. The overall goal is a common one for both sides of the equation. The worst that can happen is that Jack will say no, right? A thoughtful general proposal (1 page max) backed by all of the relevant OS communities at the moment would surely carry a lot of weight. On the other hand, focusing on the doomsday scenarios will play well within this community but probably not result in more influence on what happens next.

I am perhaps unusual (unwelcome?) here because I am quite agnostic about vendor choices. I want lots of good options, and I am more concerned about what supports educational outcomes than anything else. Students in our programs are for the most part working in this field right now, and precious few of them are dogmatic either way about OS or proprietary. They use everything. They use whatever works to solve the problems they have today. Everyone has skin in the game, so let's be honest about what we mean by openness in geospatial education. Do we mean everyone has to use QGIS? Or do we mean that we'd like as many people as possible to make and use maps, and to understand the world through a geographical perspective? I think working on the latter is much more appealing and in the spirit of the name "GeoForAll."

Cheers,

-A.

________________________________
From: "Phillip Davis" <pdavis at delmar.edu>
To: "Anthony Robinson" <acr181 at psu.edu>
Cc: ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 11:30:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Ica-osgeo-labs] Open GIS Academics and educators please apply to AAG call before June 15th, 2015

Vendor agnostic is fine. What we're concerned with Dr Robinson is the fact that under ConnectED K12 students will be seeing only Esri products with no equivalent exposure to FOSS. So while the theory is agnostic the lab experience isn't. That is the rub.

Phillip Davis

On Jun 11, 2015 10:25 AM, Anthony Robinson <acr181 at psu.edu> wrote:

Suchith,

I think before it's begun it's not appropriate to assume that a proposed AP standard would say anything specific about software choices. In fact, as an educator in this field, I would strongly advocate instead for the development of a set of core competencies and course objectives that are software agnostic. How you reach those competencies would be up to teachers, then. A key part of this proposal development is that if it is successful it will strongly influence what "GIS 101" for lack of a better description will look like at Universities that want to accept these AP courses in lieu of an intro college class in all things geospatial, so I'd really like it if we were not pushed into doing specific software skills on our end at the university by virtue of what was included in the new AP standard. The 101 class I am developing at PSU will focus very little on software skills, in fact, because I think there's plenty to cover to get folks excited about mapping and spatial analy

 sis befo
 re we dive into specific toolsets and their nuances. I don't think an intro class for non-majors is the place to drop a desktop GIS on anyone. At the same time, I wouldn't want someone else teaching to feel like they *couldn't* do that in their class.

So I would urge everyone involved to focus on core learning objectives that will be around in 10 or 20 years time, not to push hard on any specific technology which happens to be in or out of favor right now. If we were to have developed an AP course in 1999 with lots of specific technologies/software listed, it would be hilariously out of sync today with what we'd want anyone to learn. On the other hand, if we'd focus on core competencies (for example, students should be able to explain what projections do and choose an appropriate one for their map) it would probably be completely fine today since the fundamentals haven't actually changed. So I'd urge this community to think about what core competencies it thinks are important, and every time you name a specific software package or style, strike that out and write something that is a more general competency. This is the major challenge to overcome, in my view. There will also be far too many things to try and cover in one c

 ourse, s
 o it will be important to accept what is and is not possible to achieve in a single course targeted at complete novices.

What you are likely to find at the end of that exercise is that there is no need anywhere to mention any specific software vendor or type of software. And that should be a fine outcome, actually, because it means GeoForAll, for example, would have the chance then to demonstrate how those competencies are supported by current/future technology. It would also provide the chance for proprietary vendors to do the same. Educators then can choose what they want to use for their classes, at their institutions, at a given time.

Cheers,

-Anthony

Anthony C. Robinson, PhD
Assistant Professor, Department of Geography
Director for Online Geospatial Education, John A. Dutton e-Education Institute
Assistant Director, GeoVISTA Center
The Pennsylvania State University
www.personal.psu.edu/acr181/<http://www.personal.psu.edu/acr181/>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Suchith Anand" <Suchith.Anand at nottingham.ac.uk>
To: discuss at lists.osgeo.org, ica-osgeo-labs at lists.osgeo.org
Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2015 1:00:30 AM
Subject: [Ica-osgeo-labs] Open GIS Academics and educators please apply to AAG call before June 15th, 2015

Colleagues,

Last week , i send an open request to Dr. Michael Solem (AAG Director of Educational Research and Programs) to humbly request AAG to specifically include Open Education principles and FOSS4G tools firmly in the ConnnectED concept to support the new Advanced Placement course in Geographic Information Science and Technology (GIS&T).

I am pleased to inform that Michael, has replied positively [1] and i have thanked him for this and  "Geo for All" who will be pleased to provide any specific inputs needed by the AP GIS&T proposal committees for this. We will keep closely following these developments and will contribute as and when needed.

I am requesting help from all of you as if we dont act now it will be a big loss for the empowerment of thousands of schools across USA and missed empowerment and geospatial innovation opportunities for a generation. Students instead of being developed as creative innovative minds and future innovators and job creators in geospatial will turn to be just mere users of a particular properitory GIS software. I think this is big moral question for educators and policy makers. The missed economic and innovation opportunities are too big to be quantified.Access to high quality education is everyone's birth right . It is not right  to just put properitory vendor interests in education.

May i request all of you who are able to contribute to please apply to AAG in response to thier proposals for Authors, Reviewers for thier new AP Course in GIS&T so we can make sure Open Source, Open Standards, Open Data in Geospatial Education is clearly inputted into this course and i request all colleagues to contribute for .

To apply for consideration as a proposal author and/or reviewer, please submit a short (250-word maximum) statement of interest and a current resume/CV to Dr. Michael Solem, AAG Director of Educational Research and Programs, at msolem [at] aag [dot] org by June 15, 2015. Proposal authors and reviewers will receive a stipend to support their work.

More details at http://news.aag.org/2015/05/aag-seeks-proposal-authors-reviewers-for-new-ap-course-in-gist/

When i read Randal Hale's email's on the difficulties faced by that high school in the US for properitory software updates [2], it was clear wake up call on the consequences if we let  properitory GIS agenda for schools and education go ahead. Also the point made by Margarita [3] on "The hidden cost, however, is the missed empowerment of a generation, that will most likely depend upon the software that they have learned to use at school.  "  is very important.

If the properitory vendor decides to withdraw or change the conditions of thier offer to schools now or at any stage in the future what will happen to the poor schools. This is my biggest worry. Basically schools will be at the mercy of the properitory vendor. The vendor can change thier mind any time.   The example Randal Hale gave  from one of the high schools in USA [2] is a real eye opener of the long term costs/sustainability issues of depending on properitory GIS software in education. Though his example was the issues and difficulties faced by that high school in the US for properitory GIS software updates , i think it is NOT a local problem. It is a wider education problem that as educators we need to be aware of. Luckily in Randal's example [2] this had a happy ending because he was kind enough to volunteer his time to install FOSS4G but more importantly imagine if there were no free and open source geo software from OSGeo Foundation for him to help the school.

Focus on just  properitory vendor GIS tools only in education  has long term consequences. Empowerment of academics and teachers  is important  to enable empowerment of students. This will make sure academics and teachers  will always have the advantage and they will not be at the mercy and dictates of any properitory GIS vendor. Education and empowerment of academics and students are key  for developing creative and open minds in students which is critical for building open innovation and contributes to building up Open Knowledge for the benefit of the whole society and for our future generations.

Thank you for your kind attention and support on this important matter.

Best wishes,

Suchith

[1] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/ica-osgeo-labs/2015-June/001742.html [AAG Reply]
[2] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/discuss/2015-June/014310.html
[3] http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/ica-osgeo-labs/2015-June/001724.html

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