[Geo4All] [OSGeo-Discuss] Tackling the Open Source dilemma

[b.j.kobben at utwente.nl]

Dear Henrique,

I do agree with you on one point: w3w is not the best example of an open system. 

On the other parts of your message, I mostly disagree. 

As to your slur on "board member characteristics", I do hope you do not think I am a board member of OSGEO (I most definitely am not), and I certainly do not fall into your characterization:
- I have a good job, but academics in the Netherlands (like everywhere) does not make one rich
- I am 53 and have worked on and with software of all kinds, including "symbolic fees" ones, fully commercial and Open Source and all in between
- I do own intellectual properties. I have written books and papers that are my intellectual property, and that were reviewed by my peers to assure they make sense.
- QGIS, Linux etc. might be "just copies", but then by that definition any software is. You Convention is too, as you explain yourself the method is based on one used "by soldiers, boy scouts, pilots, the blind etc. for more than 100 years." 

You state that "quasiOpen in favor of the consumer AND the merit principle has never been discussed yet." 
This is absolutely untrue. 
Just watch for example the past few presentations given by Paul Ramsey (eg. http://blog.cleverelephant.ca/2017/08/foss4g-keynote.html and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUgiG6eaYtI); These were presented at conferences and these principles have been discussed at length in these gremia. Paul is a good example of someone combining commercial business principles with Open Source, successfully and with both feet on the ground.


Lastly, let me try to answer your questions:

- why do you promote the proprietary w3w? Aren't you defender of open souce?
=> I did not think I was promoting it, merely having a link to my location using their system. 

- why do you try to impede discussions about the proposed quasiOpen?
=> please explain how I impede discussions? What did I do to impede, I thought I just disagreed with you when you attack "academics that promote such PROPRIETARY silliness", when your own system is also proprietary (and why is only their system silly?). I have nothing against proprietary, but have something against unfounded claims and false arguments. 
As an aside, can you please explain what you mean by "the proposed quasiOpen"...?

- Do your students know that it is possible to divide the horizon into 12 directions?
=> Yes. As you said this was used "by soldiers, boy scouts, pilots, the blind etc. for more than 100 years.", and several of my students were in the first three of those categories (and one in the last).

- Do you motivate your students to be creative? With which arguments? Nobel prize?
=> Yes I do. The reason they do that is up to them, some do it to win a Nobel Prize, others to become rich. And we teach them to carefully read arguments and make up their minds weighing the pro's and con's of any solution, commercial or Open Source, expensive or free.  But most at our Institute do it actually to help their home countries (which are all over the world, see http://kartoweb.itc.nl/alumnimapper/index.html) with their newly acquired skills and knowledge. 


yours,
 
--
Barend Köbben
 

On 28/11/2017, 09:37, "Munich Orientation Convention" <volksnav at volksnav.de> wrote:

    Hi Barend,
    
    specially for you, I've included Enschede within the 500 cities of the
    VolksNav app, so also your students could get StreetSmart. Geocaching is a
    good method to discover the difference between smartness and w3w. 
    
    Always when I affirm that I don't understand why intelligent people promote
    the single purpose w3w, I take the liberty to cite your home page
    https://kartoweb.itc.nl/kobben/. Would you recommend words to answer the
    question "where is the cow?". 
    
    In my case, even a cowboy in Uganda could understand the answer without
    maps, without devices and without source codes. GeoForAll, also for cowboys.
    
    The board members who take black or white decisions about openness seem to
    have the following characteristics:  
    
    - to be rich or have a good job
    - to be too young to know anything about the proven method "symbolic fees"
    
    - have no own intellectual properties. 	Remark: QGIS, Linux etc. aren't
    inventions, just copies. 
    
    So the alternative quasiOpen in favor of the consumer AND the merit
    principle has never been discussed yet. 
    
    I'd appreciate very much if you'd answer to the community the following
    arising questions: 
    
    -	why do you promote the proprietary w3w? Aren't you defender of open
    souce?
    -	why do you try to impede discussions about the proposed quasiOpen?
    -	Do your students know that it is possible to divide the horizon into
    12 directions?
    -	Do you motivate your students to be creative? With which arguments?
    Nobel prize?
    
    I'd be more than glad if you'd in favor of your students, the consumer and
    inventors rethink your position about the dilemma. A start with logical room
    numbers in www.volksnav.de/UniTwente would be an adequate way. 
    
    Thank you in advance,    
     
    Henrique