[GRASS-dev] debugging nviz with TclTk 8.5 aqua

[Michael Barton]

On Jul 30, 2008, at 9:01 AM, William Kyngesburye wrote:

> On Jul 30, 2008, at 10:05 AM, Glynn Clements wrote:
>
>>> So, reinstate the txltk aqua option?  And then let the user specify
>>> tcltk-includes.  I'd say default the headers to /Library/Frameworks
>>> tcl & tk, and recommend that the user installs tcltk aqua 8.5, but
>>> requiring the user to supply the paths is also OK.
>>
>> IMHO, that has to be absolutely the last resort. I'd rather just say
>> "you need a *working* version of Tcl/Tk".
>>
>> Mac users can try harassing ActiveState into providing something that
>> actually works,
>
> It's not an ActiveState problem, they just package it as it comes  
> out of a source build.
>
>> or they can provide a "community" package which
>> actually works,
>
> Sure, they could clean up/fix the framework in their package, but  
> there are still those who will build from source.  And those who  
> will want to try the system Tcltk 8.4.
>
> I added a bug to the tcl project, but even if anything comes of it,  
> GRASS configure would still need to handle the system framework and  
> older 8.5 builds.
>
>> Ultimately, the effort would probably be better spent on hastening  
>> the
>> migration away from Tcl/Tk to Python.
>>
> I would be OK with dropping it completely from v7, but what about  
> v6?  I think that deserves an effort to improve TclTk compatibility  
> with OSX Aqua.
>
> It's a simple fix, you almost had the right combination of options,  
> and I have verified that it can work (and Michael has tweaked the  
> GUI layout a bit already to handle the cosmetic differences).

Given the direction of GRASS toward wxPython but the fact that GRASS 6  
will still be around for awhile, I think that the best option is to  
solve this in GRASS in a reasonably effective way and give more  
adventurous users the ability to try alternatives without making it  
too complicated. So here's my 2 cents worth from the Mac perspective.

Most Mac users will prefer TclTk 8.5 aqua. It looks more Mac like and  
doesn't require x11. However, it's a bit less responsive than the x11  
TclTk and the lack of x11 support means that you can't use d.mon and  
related commands even if you open an xterm. Also, the x11 version has  
a look and feel identical to the Linux version that some may prefer  
for consistency across platforms. The 8.5 x11 version looks crummy and  
nviz doesn't work again.

So I suggest making an 8.5 aqua framework build +/- standard for Mac  
compile. It also would be nice to have a relatively easy option to use  
an alternative 8.4 x11 build that internalizes TclTk for portability,  
along the lines of the way you had GRASS compiling before we opened  
this aqua can of worms. If this is possible, it should take care of  
95-99% of the Mac users.

Michael