[GRASS-PSC] RFC1 vote reminder

Scott Mitchell smitch at mac.com
Wed Mar 21 16:52:17 EDT 2007


Sounds like consensus is building.

I have edited the RFC in CVS then, feel free to comment/revise/revert:

[smitch at gracilis rfc]$ cvs diff -u RFC1_PSC.dox
Index: RFC1_PSC.dox
===================================================================
RCS file: /grassrepository/grass6/rfc/RFC1_PSC.dox,v
retrieving revision 1.5
diff -u -r1.5 RFC1_PSC.dox
--- RFC1_PSC.dox        12 Mar 2007 11:34:21 -0000      1.5
+++ RFC1_PSC.dox        21 Mar 2007 20:48:57 -0000
@@ -15,9 +15,9 @@
determines membership, and makes decisions on GRASS project issues.
"The GRASS Project" is defined as the GPL-licenced GIS software known  
as the
-Geographic Resources Analysis Support System, together with the  
surrounding
-development, distribution and promotion infrastructure currently  
headquarted
-at ITC-irst, Trento, Italy.
+Geographic Resources Analysis Support System, which at the time of  
this writing
+has code hosted in a CVS repository at Intevation GmbH, and a web  
and mailing
+list presence at http://grass.itc.it.
\section tor Terms of Reference
@@ -115,12 +115,14 @@
\section composition Composition of the Committee
-Michael Barton, Dylan Beaudette, Hamish Bowman, Massimiliano  
Cannata, Brad
-Douglas, Paul Kelly, Helena Mitasova, Scott Mitchell, Markus  
Neteler, and
-Maciej Sieczka are declared to be the founding Project Steering  
Committee.
+Initial PSC membership was decided based on a nomination and  
informal voting
+period on the community's mailing lists.  Michael Barton, Dylan  
Beaudette,
+Hamish Bowman, Massimiliano Cannata, Brad Douglas, Paul Kelly,  
Helena Mitasova,
+Scott Mitchell, Markus Neteler, and Maciej Sieczka are declared to  
be the
+founding Project Steering Committee.



On 21-Mar-07, at 15:11 , Helena Mitasova wrote:

>
> On Mar 21, 2007, at 2:52 PM, Paul Kelly wrote:
>
>> Hello Helena
>> Yes, I got your earlier e-mail - sorry I didn't realise it hadn't  
>> gone to the list.
>>
>> On Wed, 21 Mar 2007, Helena Mitasova wrote:
>>
>>> I have emailed a suggestion to identify it as a "GRASS, an OSGeo  
>>> project" which makes
>>> it unique and well defined and the participation in OSGeo will  
>>> ensure that it does not
>>> get mixed with other past or future GRASS-named efforts as there  
>>> will be only one
>>> GRASS recognized by OSGeo.
>>
>> I see where you're coming from with that and definitely think in  
>> the future it will be a really clear unambiguous way of specifying  
>> it - and good for GRASS - but right now I feel it might be a kind  
>> of chicken and egg situation - we have to have this document  
>> correct and the PSC properly in place for GRASS to be accepted as  
>> an OSGeo project, so it just doesn't seem right to include that in  
>> there now. I'm not sure - if I as I was saying earlier we could  
>> update the PSC later to change things like this then that could be  
>> done, but now I am coming round more to Scott's viewpoint that the  
>> GRASS project paragraph should just describe unambiguously at this  
>> moment in time which project is being governed by the PSC and  
>> brought into OSGeo.
>>
>> Good idea though - my mind still confused over the issue.
>
> you are right - it would be good for this vote to include what is  
> GRASS right now (then I would say -
> Markus let us know what do you think would be best to use -  
> Intevation CVS link or your foundation
> or both?)
> After we become official OSGeo project we can develop a more long  
> term definition - maybe OSGeo will have some guidance
> that will be useful for all projects.
>
> Helena
>>
>>> but apparently that email did not get posted - for some reason I  
>>> get all the emails but cannot post to the list.
>>>
>>> Also as Michael has pointed out the document does not say clearly  
>>> that the members
>>> of the PSC listed in the document were elected - it now sounds as  
>>> if they were appointed or selfdeclared.
>>
>> Yes I agree now it's good to make this clear - and Scott's  
>> proposed amendment does this nicely I think.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>> Paul, I hope at least you will get this, I will try to fix my  
>>> subscription meanwhile.
>>>
>>> Helena
>>>
>>> Helena Mitasova
>>> Dept. of Marine, Earth and Atm. Sciences
>>> 1125 Jordan Hall, NCSU Box 8208,
>>> Raleigh NC 27695
>>> http://skagit.meas.ncsu.edu/~helena/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 21, 2007, at 2:22 PM, Paul Kelly wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello Michael,
>>>> Thanks for your response to this.
>>>> On Wed, 21 Mar 2007, Michael Barton wrote:
>>>>> I just looked at what is in the cvs.
>>>>> 1. It still has reference to ITC and Trento. I thought this was  
>>>>> to be
>>>>> removed.
>>>> I was waiting for suggestion of a replacement - I think if we  
>>>> just remove "headquartered at ITC-irst, Trento, Italy." then the  
>>>> description loses a lot of its meaning. Maybe that isn't  
>>>> important. Probably I'm just being paranoid about it.
>>>> I have however been thinking a lot and can't think of anything  
>>>> clearer and simpler than defining the GRASS project as the  
>>>> community based around the CVS server, mailing lists and  
>>>> website: take those away and we'd be nothing. I guess the issue  
>>>> is whether describing them as hosted by Intevation and IRST is  
>>>> the best way of being specific, or if there's another way. As an  
>>>> alternative to "headquarted at...", I thought perhaps instead:
>>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>> Index: RFC1_PSC.dox
>>>> ===================================================================
>>>> RCS file: /home/grass/grassrepository/grass6/rfc/RFC1_PSC.dox,v
>>>> retrieving revision 1.5
>>>> diff -u -r1.5 RFC1_PSC.dox
>>>> --- RFC1_PSC.dox        12 Mar 2007 11:34:21 -0000      1.5
>>>> +++ RFC1_PSC.dox        21 Mar 2007 17:47:27 -0000
>>>> @@ -16,8 +16,9 @@
>>>>  "The GRASS Project" is defined as the GPL-licenced GIS software  
>>>> known as the
>>>>  Geographic Resources Analysis Support System, together with the  
>>>> surrounding
>>>> -development, distribution and promotion infrastructure  
>>>> currently headquarted
>>>> -at ITC-irst, Trento, Italy.
>>>> +development, distribution and promotion infrastructure  
>>>> currently hosted (as
>>>> +of March 2007) by the IRST centre, Trento, Italy and Intevation  
>>>> GmbH,
>>>> +Osnabrück, Germany.
>>>>  \section tor Terms of Reference
>>>> -------------------------------------------
>>>> But IMHO that's really cumbersome. In response to what somebody  
>>>> said earlier about having to change the RFC document if the  
>>>> location of the CVS server or website/mailing list hosting  
>>>> changed - I don't see a problem with that. The GRASS community  
>>>> is de facto defined by our mailing lists, CVS server and website  
>>>> and if these are changed then that is a significant change and  
>>>> it's not unreasonable to have to update the RFC in that situation.
>>>> But on the other hand nobody else seems to care that much about  
>>>> this issue and as Arnulf said, other projects haven't really  
>>>> addressed it so perhaps I'm being way OTT about it - and if we  
>>>> don't come to agreement soon on an alternative wording and  
>>>> nobody else objects then I *am* willing to eventually just  
>>>> delete that headquarted bit and simplify the whole description.
>>>>> 2. I just noticed that it does not say how the PSC comes into  
>>>>> being. In our
>>>>> case, it was a general vote of the GRASS user community,  
>>>>> following a
>>>>> nomination period. Does a PSC member serve for a limited or  
>>>>> unlimited term?
>>>> The section at the end "Composition of the Committee" defines  
>>>> ("hard-codes", if you will ;) the initial PSC. We used the  
>>>> voting on the mailing list to determine who is in the initial  
>>>> PSC but that was in effect just a guidance measure - this  
>>>> document is what really determines that, as I understand it. And  
>>>> there deliberately is no minimum/maximum number of PSC members  
>>>> nor term of service - changes to composition are just handled  
>>>> from now on by voting on the PSC list.
>>>> A side note on how the PSC assumes "control" over GRASS - it's  
>>>> related to the first point really - GRASS *is* the codebase in  
>>>> CVS, mailing lists and website. So as long as the current  
>>>> maintainers of those (Bernhard and Markus, I suppose) agree to  
>>>> maintain them in accordance with the wishes of the PSC, that's  
>>>> enough, I think. Maybe this should be more explicit?
>>>> Right. As Arnulf said, we should be voting on this. Let me make  
>>>> it a formal proposal then. I propose, that subject to consensus  
>>>> on the list over the wording of the definition of the GRASS  
>>>> project, that we adopt the rest of RFC1 and RFC3 as currently in  
>>>> CVS, to be official guidance documents for the operation of the  
>>>> PSC. And with the four working days - we have until 7:30pm  
>>>> Central European Time on Tuesday 27th March to discuss and vote  
>>>> on this.
>>>> I would like to give it a +1 - in accordance with the voting  
>>>> guidelines (+1 means willing to support the implementation) I  
>>>> will do my best to maintain the documents in CVS and try and  
>>>> make what I meant by the various forms of words clearer if there  
>>>> is any dispute.
>>>> Now, we only need +2 and no vetos to pass it so please don't  
>>>> feel obliged to vote a +1 if you're not sure if you have time to  
>>>> "support the implementation" of the two new RFCs. Of course if  
>>>> you do think these are really great documents and will make  
>>>> GRASS much better and are enthusiastic to work with them etc.  
>>>> etc. then by all means vote +1!! ;) I just feel the voting  
>>>> process becomes a bit meaningless if everyone rushes to put in  
>>>> their +1.
>>>> Actually I really feel like such a pedant now; hope it doesn't  
>>>> come across like that :)
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Paul
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> grass-psc mailing list
>>>> grass-psc at grass.itc.it
>>>> http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grass-psc
>>>
>>>
>
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