[GRASSLIST:1667] Re: Learning GRASS

[Markus Neteler]

Hi Wes, Rich and all,

a small addition to the thread:
What you may expect from GRASS 5.1 you can see here:
 http://www.geog.uni-hannover.de/grass/grass51/index.html

There is a nice sample image of 3D vectors in NVIZ from
Radim Blazek :-) The basic ideas of 5.1 are 3D vectors and
multiple attribute support beside a general code cleanup.

We try to hurry up with 5.0.0stable so that we can fully
start the 5.1 development. However, still bugs are
detected which we want to fix. The idea is to release a 
really stable, platform independent, relyable GRASS 5.0
very soon.

If YOU are interested to participate, please join the development
team! Small and big contributions are welcome.

Regards

 Markus Neteler


On Fri, Mar 23, 2001 at 08:00:32AM -0800, Wes Jennings wrote:
> 
> I recently signed on to the GRASSLIST. I was lurking in the background
> getting impressed with the knowledge level of the emails submitted. But
> I had some questions to ask, but I didn't want to bore the whole list
> with elemental questions. I decided to pick on some poor soul and write
> them directly. I picked out Rich Shepard to direct my private
> questions. His response so impressed me that I ask him if we could
> submit it to the GRASSLIST. He graciously agreed. My system does not
> have my original email. However, Rich has quoted my basic questions for
> his responses. I hope others get as much encouragement from this as I
> did. Again, Rich, thanks for your well measured responses.
> 
> Wes Jennings  Email: wes at taclug.org
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 wes at adrift.harbornet.com wrote:
> (Note: My email address is now  wes at taclug.org)
> 
> > I am concerned about two particular points. (1) Is it really feasible to
> > learn something as complicated as a GIS from just the spearfish database
> > and the tutorial?
> 
> Wes,
> 
>   Your question has two parts, and the answers are a) yes and b) no. The
> tutorial will start to give you a feel for the mechanics of running the
> software. Starting to understand the different modules and how to use the
> atrocious interface will give you the basis for experimenting and learning
> on your own data. So, from this perspective, the answer is "yes, you can
> learn the mechanics of the software from the tutorial".
> 
>   However, there's MUCH more to using a GIS than the mechanics of
> manipulating the program. This has been one of my big issues for more than a
> decade (I started learning/using GIS back in 1987). Look at it this way:
> teaching someone how to use a word processor does not make him a writer.
> Similarly, teaching someone how to use GRASS, MapInfo, ARC/Info, ARCview, ER
> Mapper, etc. does not make her a spatial analyst. So, the answer to that
> part of your question is "no". Books and coursework are the answer here.
> 
> > (2) Just how bright is the future for the GRASS GIS system? Will it be
> > around in 5 years healthy and kicking?
> 
>  A year or so ago, the estimate I received from Baylor was 40,000-45,000
> users world wide. GRASS has been around since the late 1980s, and I expect
> it will be around longer than I. Why not? You get the source code and can
> do with it as you wish.
> 
>   The current version in development (5) retains a lot of the baggage from
> the program's earliest days. That'll all go away in version 6 (next year
> sometime). GRASS handles every type of spatial data: vector and raster. It
> is an image processing package with many of the features of ER-Mapper, ERDAS
> and others; more capability can be added when there's a need. It handles
> vector data as does ARC/info, ARCview, MapInfo and Maptitude, but right now
> the vector analytical capabilities are limited in comparison to the raster
> analytic capabilities. Raster's where it happens for most of the
> environmental/natural resource analyses for which GRASS was invented. (GRASS
> started life as the Ft. Hood Information System and grew into the
> environmental management tool the Army used (uses?) for all military
> installations.)
> 
>   Then there are the hydrologic and other modules that are (or could be)
> tightly integrated with GRASS. I suppose you could get comparable analytic
> capabilities from ARC/Info and some of the expensive add-ons to it, but
> you'd spend >$30,000 for a single-user license on NT.
> 
>   Bugs in GRASS get fixed quickly. There's tremendous support via the 'Net
> for it. So, I do believe that GRASS will be around 5 years from now. As a
> matter of fact, down the hall from a friend of mine in Boulder, CO, is a
> company that adopted GRASS about 5 years ago (a much earlier 4.x version).
> They've modified it themselves and have become experts with it. They sell
> spatial analyses and visualization based on GRASS to developers and they are
> making a ton of money. Because they can do what others cannot do. This
> company doesn't care where GRASS is going because they have what they need
> and they have the ability to make it into whatever they need in the future,
> too.
> 
> > Any info about your own personal use and Applied Ecosystems use of GRASS
> > would be appreciated.
> 
>   I've not used GRASS too much for projects because almost all my project
> data are in MapInfo format and the MI->GRASS translator is still not a
> finished product (we can do points and lines just fine, but the polygons are
> very complex to translate -- especially having to develop topological
> relationships for GRASS when MapInfo doesn't use topology).
> 
>   However, I am using GRASS to develop and environmental decision support
> system for a client and will be using GRASS to prepare Environmental Impact
> Statements (and EAs) for 2-3 clients in the very near future. I am also
> putting together a hydrologic/hydraulic model of the Willamette River basin
> to look at the influence of land uses on erosion, sediment dynamics, fish
> habitats and other issues of concern. All new projects will use GRASS and
> the older ones will be transferred as needed.
> 
> > I have written to you personally, instead of submitting to the list, since
> > I'm not aware of how well accepted such elemental questions would be
> > received on the list.
> 
>   Everyone on the list is friendly and helpful. I would recommend that you
> go to the local technical bookstore and carefully look at their selection of
> books on GIS. Joe Berry's books (compilations of his columns) are a good
> place to start. What you want are books that teach you how to apply GIS to
> solve problems, not how to do specific tasks using one vendor's brand of
> GIS.
> 
>   There are also introductory books that describe the components of a GIS.
> Those may also be helpful so you can see how GRASS is put together and how
> the pieces relate.
> 
> Hope this helps,
> 
> Rich
> 
> Dr. Richard B. Shepard, President
> 
>                        Applied Ecosystem Services, Inc. (TM)
>             2404 SW 22nd Street | Troutdale, OR 97060-1247 | U.S.A.
>  + 1 503-667-4517 (voice) | + 1 503-667-8863 (fax) | rshepard at appl-ecosys.com
> 

-- 
Markus Neteler *  University of Hannover
Institute of Physical Geography and Landscape Ecology
Schneiderberg 50 * D-30167 Hannover * Germany
Tel: ++49-(0)511-762-4494  Fax: -3984