[GRASS-user] ArcGIS, GRASS and employability

Tue Sep 19 13:20:05 EDT 2006

Hey,

Being a complete novice in GIS, and having only 
used ESRI products a handful of times, How does 
ArcGIS/ESRI hinder student understanding?  Isn't 
it the responsibility of the student/instructor 
to look inside the black-box?  Maybe GRASS 
"forces" one to look inside, but I'm sure there 
have been times when I have cut and paste a GRASS 
command without fully understanding what's going 
on behind the scenes (did I mention I am a novice).

Just wondering.

M

At 01:14 AM 9/19/2006, you wrote:
>Hallo,
>
>imho university should be here in general to teach principals. Not to
>prepare the students for the praxis.
>
>GRASS is perfect didactical tool, it makes you understand, how it works
>and what steps must be done befor you get your result.
>
>GRASS has also that advantage, that it can be used be the students on
>their computers (pc/mac), so they can work at home.
>
>Just my two cents
>
>Jachym
>
>On Mon, Sep 18, 2006 at 04:58:49PM +0000, Roy Sanderson wrote:
> > Hello Tom, Michael and others
> >
> > Thanks for your comments on this.  I was somewhat baffled by the external
> > examiner's report, as student feedback had been very positive on the
> > course.  Perhaps he thought GRASS was only used in education?  I did
> > demonstrate a few ArGIS features to the students at the end of the course,
> > but it was noticable that only one of them wanted to use it when it came to
> > their projects, and the rest stuck to GRASS.
> >
> > Best wishes
> > Roy
> >
> > At 10:43 18/09/06 -0400, Thomas Adams wrote:
> > >Michael,
> > >
> > >Completely agree. One might also go to
> > >http://grass.itc.it/community/index.php to see the international use of
> > >GRASS GIS and to http://gmt.soest.hawaii.edu/ for the use of GMT, which
> > >many GRASS GIS users also use extensively. The assertion that GRASS is
> > >not used outside of Newcastle is an openly inflammatory and contentious
> > >remark and clearly not grounded in fact.
> > >
> > >So, one would also presume that UNIX, Linux, and MacOS X should not be
> > >used in an academic setting for the same reason, that is, that
> > >MS-Windows dominates, soÂ
?
> > >
> > >Tom
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Michael Barton wrote:
> > >> Roy,
> > >>
> > >> You'll probably get a lot of response on 
> this, but I'll add a bit here. In
> > >> terms of not being known outside Newcastle, take a look at the
> > >> user/developer map on the GRASS web site. 
> I'm in Arizona, USA--quite a ways
> > >> from Newcastle--and we are using GRASS in 
> research projects and teaching it
> > >> to students here.
> > >>
> > >> Because many companies use ESRI products, it will be useful for students
> > >> seeking employment in those companies to have some familiarity with ESRI
> > >> software. However, they will go farther if they have a good
> > understanding of
> > >> GIS concepts, and especially how to use 
> GIS to solve problems, than simply
> > >> the techniques of how to push which 
> buttons. People who actually know what
> > >> to use GIS for, can get up to speed in 
> different systems pretty fast. So an
> > >> overview of different software, including 
> ESRI, might be a good addition to
> > >> a course that uses GRASS to more effectively teach how to use GIS.
> > >>
> > >> Also, those who are employed in places 
> where the results are more important
> > >> than the software used might do better 
> with GRASS--e.g. those focusing on
> > >> research or in consulting.
> > >>
> > >> Michael
> > >>
> > >> __________________________________________
> > >> Michael Barton, Professor of Anthropology
> > >> School of Human Evolution & Social Change
> > >> Center for Social Dynamics & Complexity
> > >> Arizona State University
> > >>
> > >> phone: 480-965-6213
> > >> fax: 480-965-7671
> > >> www: http://www.public.asu.edu/~cmbarton
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> From: Roy Sanderson <R.A.Sanderson at newcastle.ac.uk>
> > >>> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 08:51:47 +0000
> > >>> To: <grassuser at grass.itc.it>
> > >>> Subject: [GRASS-user] ArcGIS, GRASS and employability
> > >>>
> > >>> Hello
> > >>>
> > >>> Last spring I converted a short course I 
> give to some of our MSc students,
> > >>> from ArcGIS 9 to GRASS 6.0.  Whilst the 
> students had had no prior exposure
> > >>> to GIS (or indeed Linux), it was obvious that they progressed through
> > their
> > >>> work much more rapidly and learnt more in terms of the fundamental
> > >>> concepts, and I was pleased with the overall results.
> > >>>
> > >>> However, the External Examiner's report for the MSc has criticised the
> > >>> change to GRASS, stating that "it isn't 
> known outside Newcastle" and that
> > >>> it is harming the students' employment prospects on graduation.  The
> > >>> examiner is clearly wanting me to go back to using something like
> > ArcGIS or
> > >>> MapInfo in the GIS module.
> > >>>
> > >>> It would be useful if anyone could 
> provide me with a few facts/figures on
> > >>> the use of GRASS outside of academia, 
> especially in any large commercial
> > >>> companies etc.
> > >>>
> > >>> Many thanks
> > >>> Roy
> > >>>
> > 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>> -------
> > >>> Roy Sanderson
> > >>> Institute for Research on Environment and Sustainability
> > >>> Devonshire Building
> > >>> University of Newcastle
> > >>> Newcastle upon Tyne
> > >>> NE1 7RU
> > >>> United Kingdom
> > >>>
> > >>> Tel: +44 191 246 4835
> > >>> Fax: +44 191 246 4999
> > >>>
> > >>> http://www.ncl.ac.uk/environment/
> > >>> r.a.sanderson at newcastle.ac.uk
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> grassuser mailing list
> > >> grassuser at grass.itc.it
> > >> http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >Thomas E Adams
> > >National Weather Service
> > >Ohio River Forecast Center
> > >1901 South State Route 134
> > >Wilmington, OH 45177
> > >
> > >EMAIL:       thomas.adams at noaa.gov
> > >
> > >VOICE:       937-383-0528
> > >FAX: 937-383-0033
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > grassuser mailing list
> > grassuser at grass.itc.it
> > http://grass.itc.it/mailman/listinfo/grassuser
>
>--
>Jachym Cepicky
>e-mail: jachym.cepicky at centrum.cz
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