[Incubator] Re: Is rasdaman suitable/ready for OSGeo incubation?

Wed Dec 8 14:09:37 EST 2010

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Peter Baumann wrote:
> Cameron-
> 
> you have suggested to remove all references to the commercial support of
> rasdaman from the rasdaman.org site.
> How does this compare to PostGIS?
> 
> - On the main page PostGIS states ". Ask us
> <mailto:info at refractions.net> about consulting services
> <http://www.refractions.net/products/postgis/> and implementing new
> features."
> - On http://www.postgis.org/support/ 2 companies are listed as
> commercial support providers.
> 
> Thanks for explaining,
> Peter

Peter,
it is perfectly fine to reference commercially operating businesses who
can provide services. I have no problem with this type of information
showing up on the front page of the project.

But I do have a bit of a problem with the naming. It is awkward that the
name of the company is identical to that of the software project. The
only differentiation is in the TLD extension org/com (but this is not
worth a dime either since some of our friends use .org to do .com). It
does not make things easier that rasdaman.org points to the longish
university URL http://rasdaman.eecs.jacobs-university.de/trac/rasdaman

The separation between software (as in deegree) and main contributing
company (here: lat/lon) is well distinguishable. If you don't do this
the name and brand of an otherwise perfectly Open Source project can end
up in strange places (see MySQL).

- From a maturity point of view it seems that the rasdaman *community*
still needs some time to grow, including a more diverse set of
developers. The bus-factor of rasdaman currently seems to be quite high.

A reference ot the affiliation of the folks committing to the project
can help to show the current status:
http://rasdaman.eecs.jacobs-university.de/trac/rasdaman/wiki/Contributors

One easy way to get more of this type of stats for other people to look
into is by sticking rasdaman into http://www.ohloh.net/

Best regards,
Arnulf.

> On 12/06/2010 10:14 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
>> Thank you Pieter,
>> I think your comments are very valuable, especially as the path you
>> followed is similar to what Peter is proposing. (Ie a business
>> building an Open Source project from scratch, rather than an
>> volunteers who convert a hobby project into a robust business model).
>>
>> Peter, if Pieter is willing, I expect you would do well to pick his
>> brain for ideas on building your our marketing strategy and business
>> model. (Geomajas have done a great job with their marketing).
>>
>> On 6/12/2010 6:31 PM, Pieter De Graef wrote:
>>> I believe your situation resembles mine a bit (2 years ago). When
>>> Geosparc was founded to support the Open Source project Geomajas,
>>> there where people from only 2 companies behind the project. We too
>>> had it quite difficult in the beginning to attract people.
>>>
>>> I believe what you need to do is make the intentions of your company
>>> as clear as possible, and make sure the Open Source project is a
>>> stand-alone project.
>>> On the Geomajas website, you will have a hard time looking for the
>>> Geosparc name. We made sure that the Geomajas website was 100%
>>> community based, and even though in the beginning there hardly was
>>> any community, now there is.
>>> It could be me, but when I see services etc on the main page, it does
>>> not give me the impression of being a stand-alone project. Although
>>> this is just an impression, don't forget perception is king. Of
>>> course I'm known to be mistaken every now and then.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Op 4/12/2010 4:30, Cameron Shorter schreef:
>>>> Peter,
>>>> The (possibly incorrect) understanding I have is that you, being one
>>>> person, have been the central driver behind rasdaman, sometimes
>>>> under the banner of the university and sometimes under your company.
>>>>
>>>> However, my key concern from OSGeo's point of view is that the
>>>> current link with a proprietary license will hinder growth of a
>>>> robust community.
>>>> Other OSGeo Incubation members may suggest otherwise.
>>>>
>>>> On 04/12/10 13:51, Baumann, Peter wrote:
>>>>> Cameron,
>>>>>
>>>>> thanks for all the effort and serious considerations put into your
>>>>> looking at rasdaman. I am very grateful about our discussion -
>>>>> among others, it has shown me that the description provided on
>>>>> www.rasdaman.org needs refinement and clarification. I have
>>>>> attempted to go into that immediately with the "feature matrix" as
>>>>> a start, but other places will have to undergo a check as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> About the licensing, let me correct some false impression. The
>>>>> open-source rasdaman code is _not_ maintained by a company, but by
>>>>> a university. So the conclusion that further development of
>>>>> rasdaman would depend on one company is wrong in two respects:
>>>>> - it is not one, but two entities supporting rasdaman
>>>>> - it is not a company which is the main promoter of open source
>>>>> rasdaman, but a university
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope that helps to clarify situation a bit. I feel it very fruitful
>>>>> that now we have come to a discussion, hope we can continue this
>>>>> fruitful exchange.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Peter
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>> From: Cameron Shorter [cameron.shorter at gmail.com]
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, December 04, 2010 12:40 AM
>>>>> To: Baumann, Peter; Bruce Bannerman; OSGeo-incubator
>>>>> Subject: Is rasdaman suitable/ready for OSGeo incubation?
>>>>>
>>>>> I had the pleasure this week of meeting Peter Baumann, the primary
>>>>> author behind rasdaman [1], a dual licensed raster processing
>>>>> application. Along with Bruce Bannerman, we discussed rasdaman's
>>>>> application for OSGeo application (initiated 18 months ago).
>>>>>
>>>>> Understandably, Peter noted some frustration by the lack of progress
>>>>> moving toward OSGeo Incubation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Since talking to Peter, I've looked at rasdaman further, and think
>>>>> that
>>>>> rasdaman has some great functionality, but I'm concerned that the
>>>>> current dual license will hamper uptake from the open source
>>>>> community.
>>>>>
>>>>> Radaman is provided via an open source community edition, and then has
>>>>> extensions which are in a proprietary enterprise edition. [2] My
>>>>> concern
>>>>> is the dual license will substantially reduce the number of developers
>>>>> prepared to grow the rasdaman developer community, as there will be a
>>>>> feeling that the prime developer will only maintain and advance the
>>>>> enterprise version.
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the key goals for incubation is to build a robust developer
>>>>> community, with contributors from multiple organisations, and to have
>>>>> the project grow sustainably. As it stands, I think that rasdaman's
>>>>> licence model will make the project dependent upon the organisation
>>>>> offering the enterprise software, which is counter to some of OSGeo
>>>>> principles.
>>>>>
>>>>> Peter,
>>>>> I understand the challenge of finding a suitable business model and
>>>>> deciding whether to go down the proprietary or open source route. Yes,
>>>>> with Open Source you do get significant marketing reach and having
>>>>> others share development costs. Alternatively, with proprietary,
>>>>> you can
>>>>> charge for software. If you wish to try to achieve both, then you will
>>>>> likely end up having to write most/all software yourself, which
>>>>> doesn't
>>>>> align with OSGeo goals of building a robust developer community.
>>>>> This may be a reason why people on the incubation committee have not
>>>>> pushed rasdaman forward further.
>>>>> If you wish to continue with OSGeo incubation, I would suggest
>>>>> considering adjusting your licence model.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] http://rasdaman.eecs.jacobs-university.de/trac/rasdaman
>>>>> [2]
>>>>> http://rasdaman.eecs.jacobs-university.de/trac/rasdaman/wiki/Features
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Cameron Shorter
>>>>> Geospatial Director
>>>>> Tel: +61 (0)2 8570 5050
>>>>> Mob: +61 (0)419 142 254
>>>>>
>>>>> Think Globally, Fix Locally
>>>>> Geospatial Solutions enhanced with Open Standards and Open Source
>>>>> http://www.lisasoft.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
> 
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- --
Arnulf Christl

Exploring Space, Time and Mind
http://arnulf.us
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