[Incubator] platforms discussion

Thu Sep 16 08:59:00 PDT 2021

It is kind of like the “highlander-principle” if the phrase “there can be
only one” applies … you are not open source.

Jody

On Wed, Sep 15, 2021 at 6:38 PM Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com> wrote:

> There is a useful definition of a framework (quite technical) here
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_framework
>
> Software frameworks have these distinguishing features that separate them
>> from libraries or normal user applications:
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_framework
>>
>>    - inversion of control - In a framework, unlike in libraries or
>>    normal user applications, the overall program's flow of control is not
>>    dictated by the caller, but by the framework.[1]
>>
>>
>>    - default behavior - A framework has a default behavior. This default
>>    behavior must actually be some useful behavior and not a series of no-ops.
>>
>>
>>    - extensibility - A framework can be extended by the user usually by
>>    selective overriding or specialized by user code providing specific
>>    functionality.
>>
>>
>>    - non-modifiable framework code - The framework code, in general, is
>>    not allowed to be modified. Users can extend the framework, but not modify
>>    its code.
>>
>> While all of that is technically true it is perhaps a bit too detailed
> for our purpose.
>
> The core distinction is earlier in the thread:
> - Does your open source code support a single website? Or is is setup for
> use by others?
> - Are you building a community around services? This is a user community
> ...
> - Are you building a community around software? This is still a user
> community ...
> - Are you building a community around software where the software source
> code is available to look at? This is still a user community ... looking at
> you Elasticsearch
> - Are you building a community around software with shared
> responsibility and risk (enabled by a license to view *and change* source
> code)? This is a free or open-source community (depending on which license
> chosen by the group)
>
> --
> Jody Garnett
>
>
> On Fri, 3 Sept 2021 at 18:32, Bruce Bannerman <
> bruce.bannerman.osgeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Jody,
>>
>> I don’t expect anything constructive from the AGM. People won’t have time
>> to reflect.
>>
>> …now what is a ‘Framework’?
>>
>> I suggest that we define what we support and take it from there. We can
>> always adjust, if required.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Bruce
>>
>> On 4 Sep 2021, at 05:27, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Thanks Bruce,
>>
>> I did not get anything useful from the board; perhaps it is a subject for
>> the AGM.
>>
>> For now the way forward seems to be to recast the platform as a framework
>> and ensure the resulting software stack and be picked up and run
>> independently (with a quickstart or similar).
>> --
>> Jody Garnett
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 at 21:57, Bruce Bannerman <
>> bruce.bannerman.osgeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Jody,
>>>
>>> Personally:
>>>
>>>
>>>    - I don’t mind a situation where an open source project attempts to
>>>    develop and maintain software that is intended to integrate a number of
>>>    software components into a working product which could perhaps be called a
>>>    platform.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    - I can see many situations where the ‘platform’ might deploy both
>>>    components and the platform’s specific customisations concurrently.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    - However, I would not support a situation where that product (or
>>>    platform) can only be implemented once. I’d prefer that it can be
>>>    implemented many times by different organisations.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    - While such a ‘platform’ project would look after its own
>>>    "integration related software", I’d see that the individual components
>>>    would be subject to their own open source project community’s governance
>>>    practices.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    - This could get quite messy, when the integration related software
>>>    is actually a customisation of an existing software component with its own
>>>    open source community already in existence. This would require careful and
>>>    close collaboration between both communities…
>>>
>>>
>>> That will do for now, let’s see what others think.
>>>
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Bruce
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 15 Jul 2021, at 01:21, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> It is indeed overloaded, and no I cannot clarify as the applicants that
>>> are coming in are slightly different from each other.
>>>
>>> Turn-key portals such as
>>> https://www.osgeo.org/choose-a-project/information-technology/portal/
>>> these showcase a range of projects. Some like geomoose are presented as
>>> frameworks, others like GC2/Vidi are presented as a platform.
>>>
>>> I would be cautious about an open source project that just supports a
>>> single website (like http://github.com/mapstory), but perhaps that is
>>> my own bias? There is an advantage to users of a platform being able to
>>> review the code responsible for the service they are using. But this
>>> represents new ground for OSGeo, hence the discussion.
>>>
>>> I also brought this discussion to the osgeo board list; so we do not
>>> need to decide on our own.
>>> --
>>> Jody Garnett
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 13 Jul 2021 at 18:56, Bruce Bannerman <
>>> bruce.bannerman.osgeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jody,
>>>>
>>>> The concept of a platform is quite overloaded and means different
>>>> things to different people.
>>>>
>>>> Can you please clarify what you mean by ‘platform’?
>>>>
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> Bruce
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > On 12 Jul 2021, at 18:30, Jody Garnett <jody.garnett at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Discussion topic for incubation committee:
>>>> >
>>>> > We are getting applications from platforms seeking to join OSGeo.
>>>> >
>>>> > What do you think?
>>>> > --
>>>> > Jody Garnett
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > Incubator mailing list
>>>> > Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
>>>> > https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>>>
>>>>
>>> --
--
Jody Garnett
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