[Live-demo] OSGeo-Live 11.0 - should kosmo continue to be included?
Cameron Shorter
cameron.shorter at gmail.com
Fri Jun 9 15:28:46 PDT 2017
Hi Sergio,
I take accept your explanation of the difficulty of merging Jump forks.
It is a pity. Without me learning the details, I suspect that the
decision to fork some time ago has resulted now in a spread of
developers across multiple projects where possibly they could all be
working on the same codebase now and be working more effectively.
Projects which attract developers then develop features faster, which
attracts users, which attracts sponsors, which attracts developers, and
this cycle leads to the project out competing similar projects.
I feel the role of OSGeo-Live is to help new users select the best
project for the users needs, which includes picking the project most
likely to grow and be successful long term.
Based on the fundamentals of watching crowd wisdom in action, and
counting number of commits in Kosmo, I see a project which looks like it
has a small active core team now, but which is being out-competed by
similar desktop GIS applications which have much larger development
teams and development activity.
I suspect that unless things change in a very fundamental way, it is
just a matter of time before Kosmo will become irrelevant. I know these
words will likely be painful to read. I personally started the
Mapbuilder project, and with the help of some great people grew it to
become the most feature rich Open Source Webmapping client for a few
years, before it was out-competed by OpenLayers and we decided to retire
it.
http://cameronshorter.blogspot.com.au/2008/07/end-of-life-for-community-mapbuilder-we_29.html
So while I'm open to being convinced that Kosmo should be included on
OSGeo-Live 11.0, I suspect it is just a matter of time before it should
be retired.
Coming back to specifics for Kosmo. Your community have been responsive,
and your OpenHub metrics show activity from one to two developers. That
is good. If you do put our a new release and update web pages as you
have suggested (within the next week or so) we can put the question the
OSGeo-Live PSC. My vote would be a +0 to include Kosmo for 11.0, but if
there is no significant change to Kosmo development practices I'll
likely vote -0 for a future OSGeo-Live 12.0 release.
Warm regards, Cameron
On 8/6/17 5:55 pm, Sergio Baños Calvo wrote:
> Hi Cameron.
>
> It's almost imposible to merge the projects again in one only: we have
> done so many changes to the JUMP core code that it differs a lot from
> the original one and can be merged back to other JUMP branches.
>
> We share a base common, so some plugins and tools can be translated
> from one project to another (e.g.: some Kosmo CAD tools have been
> ported to OpenJUMP a few weeks ago, and some OpenJUMP plugins were
> translated and added to Kosmo Desktop a few years ago). But the
> changes done to the common core avoids any possibility to merge both
> in only one project.
>
> Some examples of the changes:
>
> * Datasources: Kosmo Desktop uses an "on demmand" architecture, we
> don't load the whole layer into memory as JUMP do.
> * Projections: Kosmo Desktop allows vectorial (and raster for the
> new version) on the fly reprojection. This is not possible in
> JUMP, as projections aren't taken into account.
> * Rendering engine: Kosmo Desktop uses a different rendering engine.
> * Extension mechanism: Similar between both projects, but we have
> pushed some changes that are not valid for OpenJUMP.
> * Project files: Totally different approaches.
> * Simbology: Totally different approaches, Kosmo uses a simbology
> very close to the SLD standard
>
> Regards,
>
> El 07/06/2017 a las 22:06, Cameron Shorter escribió:
>>
>> Hi Sergio,
>>
>> Further to Angelos' email.
>>
>> As I understand it, Kosmo is one of a number of forks of the Jump
>> codebase? Are there opportunities to combine the projects back
>> together again, and then benefit from combined communities and
>> combine marketing?
>>
>> Maybe handle differences by using a plugin concept (which is the
>> approach used by QGIS)?
>>
>> Warm regards, Cameron
>>
>>
>> On 8/6/17 3:40 am, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>>> Hi Sergio,
>>>
>>> Thank you for updating the metrics page and for your contribution of
>>> Kosmo to the OSGeo-Live.
>>>
>>> I went through the links provided in the metrics page and I landed
>>> in Kosmo's home page.
>>> I realized that we have been promoting Kosmo v3.1 through OSGeo-Live
>>> for some releases now, but actually this version was never released
>>> on your page. This is not a good open source practice, and reflects
>>> bad to both projects.
>>>
>>> You mentioned a 3.2 release coming soon, I hope to see that version
>>> officially released so we can consider adding Kosmo back to OSGeo-Live.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Angelos
>>>
>>>
>>> On 06/06/2017 11:37 PM, Cameron Shorter wrote:
>>>> I'm looping the osgeo-live email list into this conversation, to
>>>> open up the opportunity to comment.
>>>>
>>>> Cameron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 6/6/17 11:15 pm, Sergio Baños Calvo wrote:
>>>>> Hi Cameron.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here it's the OpenHub metrics for Kosmo Desktop (sorry for the
>>>>> delay, i had some problems to get them up to date):
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.openhub.net/p/kosmo_desktop
>>>>>
>>>>> Feel free to check and let me know if it's worth to let Kosmo
>>>>> Desktop form part of the OSGeo-LiveDVD.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> El 31/05/2017 a las 21:49, Cameron Shorter escribió:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Sergio for looking into this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are open to being convinced that kosmo is still a project that
>>>>>> should be on OSGeo-Live.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Warm regards, Cameron
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 31/5/17 6:29 pm, Sergio Baños Calvo wrote:
>>>>>>> Good morning Cameron.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Those are bad news :(...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * There is no version change of Kosmo for a number of releases.
>>>>>>> We haven't increased the Kosmo Desktop number version due to
>>>>>>> internal reasons. The next OsGeo-LiveDVD would include the new
>>>>>>> 3.2 version.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * We don't have any OpenHub metrics for Kosmo to check
>>>>>>>> community activity
>>>>>>> I'm taking care of this, I'll warn you as soon as the openhub
>>>>>>> metrics are all completed so you can check the activity and
>>>>>>> could change the opinion about the project.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> El 27/05/2017 a las 21:50, Cameron Shorter escribió:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Sergio,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We have identified Kosmo as a candidate for retiring from
>>>>>>>> OSGeo-Live. The reasons for considering this are:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * There is no version change of Kosmo for a number of releases.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> * We don't have any OpenHub metrics for Kosmo to check
>>>>>>>> community activity
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So the question we ask is "Should we recommend new users adopt
>>>>>>>> Kosmo over equivalent Open Source GIS alternatives?"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A good way to demonstrate that is by demonstrating an active
>>>>>>>> community.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Feel free to CC the OSGeo-Live list with your response if you
>>>>>>>> like.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Warm regards, Cameron
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 15/5/17 4:27 pm, Sergio Baños Calvo wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Hi Astrid,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'll check and prepare the latest one to be added to the new
>>>>>>>>> version of OSGeo-Live.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The Project Overview and Quickstart will be valid for the new
>>>>>>>>> one, but I'll check and add the newest functionalities (and
>>>>>>>>> some use cases) to both of them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> El 09/05/2017 a las 21:09, astroidex at gmail.com escribió:
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Sergio,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> we have started our build cycle for OSGeo-Live 11.0, due to
>>>>>>>>>> be released at the end of July 2017, in time for FOSS4G 2017
>>>>>>>>>> in August.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We are interested to know which version of kosmo should be
>>>>>>>>>> installed on OSGeo-Live 11.0?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Version 3.1 was installed on OSGeo-Live 10.5.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Note that our installer feature freeze is 5. June 2017!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Please give us feedback and get involved or provide a
>>>>>>>>>> different person as contact person, which will update your
>>>>>>>>>> project.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We are asking all OSGeo-Live projects to let us know:
>>>>>>>>>> 1. What versions of projects should be on OSGeo-Live?
>>>>>>>>>> 2. Are there any new projects which should be on OSGeo-Live?
>>>>>>>>>> 3. Are there any projects which should be dropped from
>>>>>>>>>> OSGeo-Live?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do you think we should drop kosmo from OSGeo-Live?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As per last announcement [1], with our next OSGeo-Live
>>>>>>>>>> release we intend to focus on quality, and as such will be
>>>>>>>>>> asking each project:
>>>>>>>>>> 1. To help install the latest stable version of the software.
>>>>>>>>>> 2. To verify Project Overview and Quickstarts are both up to
>>>>>>>>>> date and in line with our documentation standards.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You can see results of our first pass review in our status
>>>>>>>>>> spreadsheet [2], column T "11.0 comment", and column U "10.0
>>>>>>>>>> Doc Review".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [1] https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc_Press_Release_75
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> [2]
>>>>>>>>>> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Q5BaEgQtgw4O1bXyeWMlM8XtAOhUgcjZ7Y2O0FZc2H0/edit?hl=en_GB#gid=2014800150
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Key Milestones
>>>>>>>>>> -------------------
>>>>>>>>>> 15-May-2017 Decide versions of applications to be installed
>>>>>>>>>> on OSGeo-Live
>>>>>>>>>> 22-May-2017 Draft installers for new applications complete
>>>>>>>>>> 5-Jun-2017 OSGeo-Live Feature Freeze (final application
>>>>>>>>>> versions installed)
>>>>>>>>>> 19-Jun-2017 OSGeo-Live delivered to UAT (final application
>>>>>>>>>> versions installed - Beta stage)
>>>>>>>>>> 24-Jul-2017 OSGeo-Live Final ISO
>>>>>>>>>> 14-Aug-2017 FOSS4G 2017 Boston
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ... full schedule
>>>>>>>>>> http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Al9zh8DjmU_RdE1SYUN3YWJ2N1NpSUczbW9IRWZNclE&hl=en_GB
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> We are waiting for your response concerning your project
>>>>>>>>>> kosmo. Any questions, please ask via the OSGeo-Live mailing
>>>>>>>>>> list (live-demo at lists.osgeo.org) or directly.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Warm regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Astrid
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Astrid Emde
>>>>>>>>>> Charter Member
>>>>>>>>>> Open Source Geospatial Foundation
>>>>>>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/User:Astrid_Emde
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sergio Baños Calvo
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jefe de desarrollos / Development chief
>>>>>>>>> Sistemas Abiertos de Información Geográfica,S.L. (SAIG S.L.)
>>>>>>>>> Tlfno. móvil / Mobile phone: (+34) 685005960
>>>>>>>>> Tlfno. fijo / Office phone: (+34) 954788876
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> E-mail: sbc at saig.es
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Cameron Shorter
>>>>>>>> M +61 419 142 254
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sergio Baños Calvo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jefe de desarrollos / Development chief
>>>>>>> Sistemas Abiertos de Información Geográfica,S.L. (SAIG S.L.)
>>>>>>> Tlfno. móvil / Mobile phone: (+34) 685005960
>>>>>>> Tlfno. fijo / Office phone: (+34) 954788876
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> E-mail: sbc at saig.es
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cameron Shorter
>>>>>> M +61 419 142 254
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Sergio Baños Calvo
>>>>>
>>>>> Jefe de desarrollos / Development chief
>>>>> Sistemas Abiertos de Información Geográfica,S.L. (SAIG S.L.)
>>>>> Tlfno. móvil / Mobile phone: (+34) 685005960
>>>>> Tlfno. fijo / Office phone: (+34) 954788876
>>>>>
>>>>> E-mail: sbc at saig.es
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Live-demo mailing list
>>>> Live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
>>>> http://live.osgeo.org
>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Angelos Tzotsos, PhD
>>> Charter Member
>>> Open Source Geospatial Foundation
>>> http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Live-demo mailing list
>>> Live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
>>> http://live.osgeo.org
>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>>
>> --
>> Cameron Shorter
>> M +61 419 142 254
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Live-demo mailing list
>> Live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
>> http://live.osgeo.org
>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>
>
> --
>
> Sergio Baños Calvo
>
> Jefe de desarrollos / Development chief
> Sistemas Abiertos de Información Geográfica,S.L. (SAIG S.L.)
> Tlfno. móvil / Mobile phone: (+34) 685005960
> Tlfno. fijo / Office phone: (+34) 954788876
>
> E-mail: sbc at saig.es
>
--
Cameron Shorter
M +61 419 142 254
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