thomas.bonfort at GMAIL.COM
Mon Oct 29 09:16:19 EDT 2007
I don't have much more to add, as Steve's reply is right on track.
Tamas, I do think that the naive simplification should be done at the
renderer level, whatever preprocessing was done beforehand at the data
source level: it doesn't make much sense for a pixel based renderer to
spend large amounts of time rendering features that are below the
pixel level, but it does make sense for svg for example, when you may
not know the scale at which the output will be seen. so let the
renderer decide what level of detail it can provide and discard what
it knows will carry little if not no additional information.
as for the douglas-peukel simplification, I agree this could/should be
done at the data source. I was just throwing in the idea after looking
at http://freemap.in/world/index.cgi , where the cartographic quality
actually decreases at large scales because the data being drawn is too
complex. So to have some kind of simplification going on that keeps
cartographic quality whatever the scale, you'd either have to call the
simplification methods with some kind of scale dependand tuning
parameters, or else have it done at the pixel level which seems a bit
subsidiary question: should we apply vertex simplification for point
layers, when multiple points fall in the same image pixel?
On 10/28/07, Stephen Woodbridge <woodbri at swoodbridge.com> wrote:
> I don't think these two things are mutually exclusive. The fact is that
> once you get the lines projected into pixel space there is still a need
> to remove redundant vertices as Thomas has already identified because it
> generates a significant speedup. I think Thomas should move forward on
> that front regardless of other steps that might get taken.
> Regarding adding douglas-peuker at the raster level, I think that the
> jury is not in on that yet. The value of doing this would be because it
> can speed up the rendering without a significant impact to the display
> quality. I think Thomas needs to perform some test in this area and
> report on the findings.
> There are advantages to doing simplification at the source level and
> potentially caching the source data, in that there is less data to move
> into mapserver and less data to manipulate and this has some savings
> that can be pretty big depending on a lot of variables. But once that
> data or any data is in pixel space there are a whole other set of
> optimizations that can/need to be applied regardless of the source data
> that can speed up specifically the rasterizing task and this is what
> Thomas is looking at.
> So we should get champions to move both fronts forward.
> Best regards,
> Tamas Szekeres wrote:
> > Thomas,
> > I think this kind of feature preprocessing task should not be bound
> > tightly to the rendering process and should be treated differently.
> > The concept around MS-RFC-22 (
> > http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/development/rfc/ms-rfc-22a ) is a kind of
> > preliminary invocation for satisfying this need.
> > We should also allow the user to define the desired processing
> > pipeline along with some caching to prevent from doing the same
> > operation twice in the further drawings or among the layers if
> > possible.
> > The concept out there would also allow to drag in the capabilities of
> > the GEOS library to make more functions available like the
> > Douglas-Peuker simplifier as it happens.
> > In many cases however it might be desirable to make the simplification
> > at the data source to decrease the amount of data to be retrieved.
> > Best regards,
> > Tamas
> > 2007/10/27, thomas bonfort <thomas.bonfort at gmail.com>:
> >> hi all,
> >> I'm looking into adding some vertex simplification at the image level,
> >> for the time being limited to the agg renderer. I've got two questions
> >> I'd like to have feedback on:
> >> * it's very easy to add a local simplification, by removing vertexes
> >> in a linestring that are closer than some threshold to their preceding
> >> vertex. I'm getting nice speedups by mimicking what's currently (more
> >> or less implicitely) done with gd, by removing vertexes that fall in
> >> the same pixel than its predecessor (of course these speedups would
> >> only happen for complex line layers. I'm currently testing with the
> >> canadian road data mentionned in
> >> http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/FOSS4G2007_IntegrationShowcase). I
> >> know agg is all about subpixel accuracy and such, but I'd think this
> >> behaviour could be enabled by default ( as in this case the maximum
> >> error for a vertex is less than a pixel)
> >> * is anyone interested in having a global and tunable vertex
> >> simplification functionality. I don't think it would be too much work
> >> work to implement a douglas-peuker line generalisation algorithm, that
> >> could be turned on and tunable with a new mapfile keyword. That's
> >> basically doing what postgis' SIMPLIFY can already do, except this
> >> would be done in pixel coordinates, and therefore would not have to be
> >> tuned w.r.t. scale.
> >> thomas
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