[mapserver-users] Re: FW: [Manifold] Map Server Docs

[Stephen Lime]

Jim: Thanks for passing this along. Dimitri's points are valid to a certain extent.

- Depending on who you talk to MapServer is extremely easy to use or can be
cumbersome. I've not run across a single system that is *easy* to use. Many 
include an out-of-the-box functionality that get's folks up quickly although it's
a very different matter to move away from that in any meaningful fashion. MapServer's
demo serve's much the same role but in my opinion is easier to extend. Several
tools have been written (Tom Poindexter's suite of tools is an example) and others
are on the way.

- write access to the file system is NOT a requirement although many folks use
it that way. It's easy to setup a system that writes no files to disk. The java version
of the DNR Recreation Compass and LandView are examples and even the
most basic CGI versions can be configured this way. Risks associated with
write permissions can be mitigated IF permissions are handled correctly. No system
is free from security issues, just running on Windows is a huge one!

- by "low performance" I assume he's refering to CGI vs whatever. CGI is slower,
yes, but that's not the bottleneck which is clearly related to processing the GIS
data. MapScript certainly provides a host of alternatives. I've not used Manifold's
web piece but performance relative to other vendor products is pretty clear.

The comment I agree with most is that by NOT being a GIS itself MapServer does,
in many cases, assume you have other products to use. I've always used it in concert
with other systems and I think most users do as well. It's just that those other vendors
don't offer a free or even marginally low cost web mapping system. Manifold is the
only one to do that, kudos for that.

As for the experience of the user? Web mapping simply is not the domain of pure GIS
staff nor pure web staff. It's techical enough to require both in the form of teams or
staff with particular talents. Once MapServer configuration (i.e. map files) are mastered
there's no need for ANY scripting so a less techical audience is free to participate (especially
if we can build more wizard tools). Yet the system offers advanced users the opportunity
to code as much as they'd like. And in the end you're not locked into an OS, scripting language,
file format or vendor.

Steve


Stephen Lime
Internet Applications Analyst

Minnesota DNR
500 Lafayette Road
St. Paul, MN 55155
651-297-2937

>>> "Platt, Jim" <jimp at ObjectFX.com> 09/14/01 10:05AM >>>
Steve:

It is not my habit to pass along competitor's comments (just ask the folks
around here), but I thought you might be interested in this.

Jim Platt

-----Original Message-----
From: Dimitri Rotow [mailto:dar at manifold.net] 
Sent: Friday, September 14, 2001 9:59 AM
To: manifold-l at lists.directionsmag.com 
Subject: RE: [Manifold] Map Server Docs



> The MapServer component you refer to is an open source product
> developed at
> the univ of minnesota
> http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/ . Documentation is limited basically to what
> you see on those pages and a list server.
>
> Regards
>
> Andrew Luger
>

Andrew,

I believe Andrew Coates was asking about the Manifold Internet Map Server
(IMS) that is part of 5.00.  Manifold IMS has no connection whatsoever with
the University of Minnesota project, nor does it use any code from the
University of Minnesota server. It is a very different thing, based on
Manifold System.

Once can see that Manifold IMS is based on Manifold by how it leverages the
capabilities of Manifold, for example to display surfaces, work with Zoom
Ranges, and so on.  Manifold IMS is essentially an alternate presentation /
user interface layer for Manifold.  As the programming interfaces for Phase
2 are published the details of interfacing to Manifold IMS will also be
published.

Although this is a Manifold list and not a general GIS list, I hope people
will forgive me for going "off topic" slightly and commenting on the
Minnesota server.  It has pluses and minuses: the biggest pluses are that it
is free and runs on Linux.  The biggest minuses are that is is complex to
configure and operate, it is a low performance architecture and that it has
numerous security holes, the most obvious of which is that it requires
giving the Internet client "write" permission to the server's Internet
directories.  These make it risky to deploy in production environments.

>From an architectural viewpoint I would respectfully disagree with the
Minnesota approach.  When contemplating the Minnesota server one is struck
by how for it to be seriously useful it requires the user / webmaster to
have a real GIS to work with.   On the other hand, it defines a world (in
terms of the configuration, programming and scripting required to make it do
things) that is very technical and very different in the details of that
technicality from any GIS.  That means for proficiency one must end up
learning and optimizing two very different systems: the GIS that's used for
most mapping stuff and the GIS/server that's used to publish.  I can
understand how the above happened, since the Minnesota folks did not have a
GIS to work with of their own.

At Manifold we figured that if a person invests a lot of time in mastering a
GIS he or she should be able to leverage that GIS directly in the
presentation/interaction via Internet. Using the GIS makes creation of a web
page a very simple dialog, almost a "one-click" process, while retaining the
sophistication of what one can do in a real GIS (surfaces, images,
projections, etc.). We, of course, had a very extensive GIS already so we
had the luxury of taking this approach.  It is also a cost advantage, since
a free map server plus any other GIS ends up being considerably more
expensive than 5.00 (which includes Manifold IMS "for free").

Cheers,

Dimitri










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