A confused Network Admin

Wed Mar 2 13:03:13 PST 2005

That's cool :)

There are people and companies on this list that can offer you paid
support ... same people and probably same advice that you can get
through the list but on-demand, more timely, and by telephone :)

Microsoft has deep pockets and 'Windows Everywhere'.  ESRI ... no comment ;)

Your feedback on the doc list will be very helpful.

Something you may want to consider is using a pre-packaged environment
that comes with everything you need, fully functional and pre-configured
such as MS4W (http://www.maptools.org/ms4w/).  It provides everything
you need including an Apache web server ... it is possible to configure
it to run through IIS and we have a prototype of this internally but no
documentation ;) yet ... it will be included in MS4W as soon as the docs
are done since it is a manual process to integrate stuff into IIS (as
you well know by now).  Also, it only provides PHP4 at this time ... I
would add a note about PHP5 from some users on the Chameleon list, it
appears that PHP5 is 25% slower than a similarly configured PHP4,
possibly because of how we use PHP but still disappointing.

Paul

Lisi, Christine wrote:
> Paul - you are right, phone support does not come cheap, but as someone
> who has a lot of input on application decisions here, one of my main
> criteria is that the vendor offer good phone Support.  I didn't have
> much say in the purchase of the ESRI software because it's almost an
> industry standard from what I understand, but their tech support is on a
> call-back basis, which amazes me given the cost of the software and
> maintenance.  I think they have the market cornered so they just don't
> care, but I would think that must frustrate the end user immensely.
> Again, I am a Network Admin and not an end user of the software, but I
> can't believe that the industry lets ESRI get away with that.  I know
> once we get into this project it will frustrate me too, and if I have to
> I will call the President.  With the money we are paying for the
> software, I will take it to the top.
>
> Another thing that's relevant to this conversation...  99% of the calls
> I make to Microsoft are due to problems/errors/exclusions in
> documentation, and 99% of the time I do not have to pay for the call
> because in the end it's their documentation (or lack thereof) that is
> the reason why I'm calling in the first place.
>
> I sent an e-mail to the MapServer-Doc list with some suggestions.
>
> Christine Lisi
> Application Specialist
>
> Management Information Systems * City of Delray Beach * 100 NW First
> Avenue, Delray Beach, FL 33444
>
> Phone, 561-243-7142 * Fax, 561-243-7166 * eMail, Lisi at MyDelrayBeach.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: UMN MapServer Users List [mailto:MAPSERVER-USERS at LISTS.UMN.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Paul Spencer
> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 2:56 PM
> To: MAPSERVER-USERS at LISTS.UMN.EDU
> Subject: Re: [UMN_MAPSERVER-USERS] A confused Network Admin
>
> This is a personal gripe and is not directed at Christine - she just got
> me started thinking about it :)
>
> There is some confusion here in assuming that Open Source = FREE.  It
> doesn't mean that at all.
>
> For those of you that like to be able to call up Tech Support, I doubt
> that you got the product for free in the first place and that's where
> part of your money goes ... paying for Tech Support and Documentation.
>
> For the MapServer community in general, if you want better
> documentation, it has to be paid for either by contributing time writing
> the documentation or financially supporting those who can write the
> documentation.  Its not going to write itself.  If you aren't prepared
> to contribute then I guess you don't really have a problem.
>
> Paul
>
> Lisi, Christine wrote:
>
>>Marco - I couldn't have put it better myself.  The best OpenSource
>>documentation of the four I have dealt with in the last 2 weeks came
>>with PHP; twenty-three pages of step-by-step instructions, and they
>>didn't forget about Windows users.  I agree that this listserver
>>wouldn't be nearly as busy if the documentation on the OpenSource
>>products was more complete and precise, and I also wish there was more
>>of a collaborative effort between the programmers when releasing new
>>versions.
>>
>>All I can say is, thank goodness for this listserver because I could
>>have never gotten through this with documentation alone.
>>
>>Christine Lisi
>>Application Specialist
>>
>>Management Information Systems * City of Delray Beach * 100 NW First
>>Avenue, Delray Beach, FL 33444
>>
>>Phone, 561-243-7142 * Fax, 561-243-7166 * eMail,
>
> Lisi at MyDelrayBeach.com
>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: UMN MapServer Users List [mailto:MAPSERVER-USERS at LISTS.UMN.EDU]
>
> On
>
>>Behalf Of Marco Marsella
>>Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 1:07 PM
>>To: MAPSERVER-USERS at LISTS.UMN.EDU
>>Subject: Re: [UMN_MAPSERVER-USERS] A confused Network Admin
>>
>>I would like to reassure Christine that she's not the only one
>
> confused
>
>>about OpenSource in general and MapServer in particular. I have over
>
> 25
>
>>years of professional programming experience in too many languages,
>>starting with FORTRAN IV when some of the listers here where probably
>>not even able to read yet ;-)
>>
>>I find myself also *very* confused because of the terribly poor
>>documentation that usually complements OpenSource projects. Most often
>>than not, there is just a very technical document that tersely
>
> explains
>
>>what you can do with this or that parameter. With most Java projects
>>you just find the JavaDoc! There is little or no high-level
>>documentation that explains the architecture and lets you find your
>
> way
>
>>around. Most of the projects require that you spend an inordinate
>>amount of time looking at the code to understand what you can do and
>>how.
>>
>>For me, I find the MapServer documentation absolutely insufficient and
>>it is amazing how people prefer to spend a lot of time replying on
>
> this
>
>>list rather than investing much more efficiently their time writing
>>decent documentation and providing good tutorials and examples.
>>
>>Please, do not misunderstand me! I think MapServer is a terrific
>>project and I am incredibly grateful to the very knowledgeable guys
>
> out
>
>>there willing to help through the list. Only, I would much prefer
>>having good documentation to work through and bother the listers only
>>when absolutely necessary.
>>
>>As you may have seen, I put my.. time where the mouth is. As soon as I
>>learn how to do something, I will post a message to the list hoping
>>that it might be of help to others (see "[UMN_MAPSERVER-USERS] A
>>simple... sample!" dated 10 Feb 2005). Sure, it is a trivial example,
>>but it took me *a lot* of time (and a zillion Google searches) to
>>figure out, much longer than I would expect! I will be more than happy
>>to continue doing so to alleviate the trouble of learning MapServer!
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Marco
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------+
> |Paul Spencer                           pspencer at dmsolutions.ca   |
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------+
> |Applications & Software Development                              |
> |DM Solutions Group Inc                 http://www.dmsolutions.ca/|
> +-----------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>

--
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
|Paul Spencer                           pspencer at dmsolutions.ca   |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
|Applications & Software Development                              |
|DM Solutions Group Inc                 http://www.dmsolutions.ca/|
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+