[VisCom] Logo/branding effort

[Venkatesh Raghavan]

On 9/29/06, Michael P. Gerlek <mpg at lizardtech.com> wrote:

>
> I started looking around some more to see who is using trademarks in the
> open source world.  FSF doesn't say anything anywhere about trademarks of
> it's distinctive hand-drawn Gnu symbol or the FSF name.  Creative Commons
> does not use a (tm) on their logo -- but they do have a page carefully
> describing use of their trademarks.  OSI uses a (tm) on their logo; Apache
> does not; the Python Foundation does...  Aargh!
>
> If anything, I feel comforted knowing that its not just me: the rest of
> the world is seriously confused by this issue too.
>
> Looking forward to having the Board tell me how to think,
>

In situations like this, I feel that it would be best to
rely on "The Wisdom of Crowds" (ISBN 0-349-11707-1).

Regards

Venka

-mpg(tm)
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Michael P. Gerlek
> *Sent:* Thu 9/28/2006 10:36 AM
> *To:* 'dev at visibilitycommittee.osgeo.org'
> *Subject:* RE: [VisCom] Logo/branding effort
>
>  Arnulf-
>
> Sorry you weren't there this morning, as this is clearly something that we
> need to come to consensus on at the Foundation level -- as opposed to just
> talking within VisCom, or just taking a majority vote.
>
> Have fun at tomorrow's board meeting :-)
>
> -mpg
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Arnulf Christl [mailto:arnulf.christl at ccgis.de<arnulf.christl at ccgis.de>
> ]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 10:22 AM
> > To: dev at visibilitycommittee.osgeo.org
> > Subject: Re: [VisCom] Logo/branding effort
> >
> > Michael P. Gerlek wrote:
> > > I have made a proposal for the logo design work here:
> > >   http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/LogoProposal
> > >
> > > If we (VisCom) can vote on this tomorrow, then assuming it
> > passes we can
> > > give it over the board for their meeting on the 29th.
> > >
> > > -mpg
> >
> > Hi,
> > go for it. I am so very fed up with not having proper logos
> > that anything but what we not have now is better. I have also
> > requested for proposals, one ranged at €10T one at €8T with
> > comparable content. In our high price regions this seems to
> > be the price tag.
> >
> > Sorry for the lengthy rest of this post.
> >
> > There are still some other things that I would like to
> > discuss regarding Logo use
> > (http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/Logo_Use)-<http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/Logo_Use%29->which has by now
> > mutated into Trademark Guidelines
> > (http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/TrademarkGuidelines) which
> > sort of offends me a bit. My bit, a little. Whatever.
> >
> > There has been some talk on whether we need to enforce usage
> > of OSGeo with (tm) or (r). I have asked several times why
> > this would seem a requirement and brought up some reasons on
> > why I think it is not required but the issue was never resolved.
> >
> > Ubuntu policy (http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/TrademarkPolicy)
> > is less complicated and enforcing with regard to adding the
> > (tm) or (r) than Mozilla thus I like it more. I suggest to
> > remove the tm/r bit from:
> > http://wiki.osgeo.org/index.php/TrademarkGuidelines.
> > Done. ((I am unhappy at deleting other people's thoughts,
> > blabla and please do not feel offended - in the end it is
> > just a Wiki...))
> >
> > This article on Wikipedia differentiates trademark rights
> > "use and registration":
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trademark#Establishing_trademark_
> > rights_.E2.80.94_use_and_registration
> >
> > From Wikipedia:
> > ''
> > The law considers a trademark to be a form of property.
> > Proprietary rights in relation to a trademark may be
> > established through actual use in the marketplace, or through
> > registration of the mark with the trade marks office (or
> > "trademarks registry") of a particular jurisdiction. In many
> > jurisdictions, trademark rights can be established through
> > either or both means. Certain jurisdictions generally do not
> > recognise trademarks rights arising through use (e.g. China).
> > If trademark owners do not hold registrations for their marks
> > in such jurisdictions, the extent to which they will be able
> > to enforce their rights through trademark infringement
> > proceedings will therefore be limited.
> > ''
> >
> > Having the words "property" and "Proprietary rights"
> > mentioned twice in the first dozen words shows in what realms
> > we are moving. I don't believe that it will be necessary for
> > OSGeo "to enforce their rights through trademark infringement
> > proceedings". I simply cannot imagine that anybody would get
> > anything at all out of misusing our Logo for any prolonged
> > stretch of time. ((Having tm/r there or not does not make any
> > difference with espect to the amount of back checking that we
> > need to do)) It will only ruin the potential offender's
> > reputation for quite a while. OSGeo only exists as it does
> > because there is a large user base and OSGeo is NOT for
> > profit. The situation is therefore very different to that of
> > a commercial company trying to fight on the marketplace
> > against another competitor with comparable products and
> > services. OSGeo very explicitly says that it will *not* work
> > (compete) against other existing initiatives but try to
> > connect and collaborate. From this perspective
> > the idea of somebody "stealing" the logo to make profit on
> > the expense of OSGeo becomes rather negligible. Same is true
> > for the communities we are delivering our goods. We do not
> > compete with Microsoft for billions of browser users and
> > predominance of the world.
> >
> > This does not mean that we can just forget about defining in
> > which context the logo and term OSGeo / OSGeo.org etc. are to
> > be used. We need to have a very clear (make it simple)
> > guideline that people understand without having to ask a
> > lawyer. But I do not support the idea of relying on the beast
> > that we are fighting with the Free and Open Source idea. This
> > simply does not make sense.
> >
> > == Services Related to OSGeo Software ==
> > This aspect of logo use is highly interesting to service
> > providers and closely related to the bold company listing
> > that is being discussed elsewhere and starts to grow on the
> > Drupal portal.
> >
> > I believe that this is going to be one of the natural and
> > powerful branding multipliers for OSGeo visibility. Once
> > people identify the OSGeo logo with some kind of 'certified'
> > (insert other wording) services it will be a 'fast-selling
> > item'. Just look at the CCGIS homepage and what do you see?
> > The OGC logo :-( ...but not OSGeo because we cannot do it as
> > there is no guideline yet. We (as a company) need more
> > guidance on this and I am not going to get involved in
> > designing the process / policy to avoid conflicting interests.
> >
> > == Logos and Merchandise ==
> > I don't think that merchandise actually is "that's how we
> > make some of the money that keeps us around." We are very
> > different in dimension compared to Mozilla. They might make
> > some income but we don't and likely never will. Our user base
> > is just too small. Additionally I would suggest to remove the
> > unique selling point CafePress. Its good that we have it but
> > there are other remote places where people might want to use
> > OSGeo shirts and can get them a lot cheaper than having to
> > ship them around the world. ((I am just imagining CafePress
> > shirts being produced in China with fibers from Brazil,
> > colors from Germany, someone sticking it into a package in
> > the US shipping it back to China. We are not that mad, are we?))
> >
> > Last but not least I will try to add the [[Category:Trademark
> > Policy]] to all pages referring to logo, branding, linking,
> > etc. We need to clean that out and come up with a stable
> > version that can be approved by the board and moved to the
> > Drupal Portal.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Arnulf.
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> > dev-help at visibilitycommittee.osgeo.org
> >
> >
>
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