[Marketing] Re: Marketing Digest, Vol 15, Issue 14

Fri Dec 12 03:30:45 EST 2008

15th of January is great for me.

Daniele

On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 3:52 AM, <marketing-request at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. RE: just some thoughts (Michael P. Gerlek)
>   2. RE: Marketing Calendar on the Web (Michael P. Gerlek)
>   3. RE: Feedback from Marketing Meeting (Michael P. Gerlek)
>   4. RE: just some thoughts (Miguel Montesinos)
>   5. Re: Feedback from Marketing Meeting (Frank Warmerdam)
>   6. Re: Feedback from Marketing Meeting (Paul Ramsey)
>   7. RE: just some thoughts (Michael P. Gerlek)
>   8. RE: Feedback from Marketing Meeting (Michael P. Gerlek)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:22:54 -0800
> From: "Michael P. Gerlek" <mpg at lizardtech.com>
> Subject: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughts
> To: 'Miguel Montesinos' <mmontesinos at prodevelop.es>, OSGeo Marketing
>        <marketing at lists.osgeo.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <
> C55473998E248B4DAEC5342D698DFE851B69EB7B at sea-srv-mail.lizardtech.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Miguel escribió:
>
> > I usually come up against explaining both Open Source and FOSS4G. If we
> > don't give some guidelines about open source, it may stop some CTOs from
> > going to open source, and it makes impossible therefore to adopt FOSS4G
> > projects.
>
> This surprises/disappoints me.  Amongst the developer or technical decision
> maker crowd, are there really still people who in don't grok at least the
> overarching idea of open source?
>
> The people I meet may not know the geo world has such strong FOSS
> offerings, and they may not be able to articulate the differences between
> GPL and BSD licenses, but they definitely understand the general idea.
>
> -mpg
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:30:29 -0800
> From: "Michael P. Gerlek" <mpg at lizardtech.com>
> Subject: RE: [Marketing] Marketing Calendar on the Web
> To: "'Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)'" <tmitchell at osgeo.org>, OSGeo Marketing
>        <marketing at lists.osgeo.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <
> C55473998E248B4DAEC5342D698DFE851B69EB7E at sea-srv-mail.lizardtech.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> (For those of calendar-impaired, pls send occasional meeting reminders to
> the list too...)
>
> -mpg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: marketing-bounces at lists.osgeo.org [mailto:
> marketing-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Tyler Mitchell (OSGeo)
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 12:53 AM
> To: OSGeo Marketing
> Subject: [Marketing] Marketing Calendar on the Web
>
> We just had a great committee meeting - more to come after I get some
> sleep.
>
> Those of us who were there until the end, decided to keep the same
> time for future meetings.  We can still debate it if others want to,
> we were missing a few of you!  We also planned to meet at least once
> a month on a specific day - the first Thursday of each month at 7am
> UTC (note, that's Wednesday for some of us) starting in February.
>
> I've put these into a web accessible calendar file for you to use in
> your calendaring application.  Apparently I can also post "to do"
> task items and reminders there.  If you sign up to it, be sure to set
> it to auto-update from the feed regularly.
>
> Please don't ask me to put it into some online google application,
> but feel free to do so if that's your preference. :)  You can also
> read it with Mozilla Sunbird (free) or Apples iCal, plus numerous
> other apps.  Not sure how much Outlook likes it.
>
>    webcal://www.osgeo.org/calendars/Marketing.ics
>
> Hope this definite time and date helps future planning!
>
> Please note, I will be working half time for much of December, and
> the beginning of January will be weird for many people.  So I propose
> our next meeting to be January 15th and then into our monthly
> recurring schedule starting in February.
>
> Thanks to all who made the meeting very successful today.  I'll get
> the minutes posted and circulate the action items tomorrow.
>
> Best wishes,
> Tyler
> _______________________________________________
> Marketing mailing list
> Marketing at lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:34:21 -0800
> From: "Michael P. Gerlek" <mpg at lizardtech.com>
> Subject: RE: [Marketing] Feedback from Marketing Meeting
> To: 'Christopher Schmidt' <crschmidt at metacarta.com>,
>        "marketing at lists.osgeo.org" <marketing at lists.osgeo.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <
> C55473998E248B4DAEC5342D698DFE851B69EB7F at sea-srv-mail.lizardtech.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> No apologies needed, imho -- such comments, when well thought out as you've
> done, are always helpful.
>
> Seems to be some confusion about the "marketing" and "website" charters.
>  At the risk of introducing a Naming Thread, I'd suggest the marketing team
> should really be considered as "MarCom" (Marketing/Communications) and thus
> responsible for the content/fodder on the web (whereas the icky
> HTMLification of said fodder is decidedly not a marketing team role).
>
> -mpg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: marketing-bounces at lists.osgeo.org [mailto:
> marketing-bounces at lists.osgeo.org] On Behalf Of Christopher Schmidt
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 7:38 AM
> To: marketing at lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: [Marketing] Feedback from Marketing Meeting
>
> Hello,
>
> Upon partial review of the marketing committee meeting on IRC last
> night, I noticed a couple things that I'd like to comment on.
>
> First, It seems that my email was seen as a negative comment on the
> marketing committee. I apologize that it was seen that way.
> Specifically, my original email was not sent to the marketing committee
> for a reason: I don't see that Marketing has -- up until this point --
> had a strong reason to consider the website 'theirs'.
>
> We have a "web committee" who is, as far as I understand it, tasked with
> the maintenance of the website as it stands today. This committee is
> primarily -- at this time -- involved in the upkeep of the current
> website, and not with broad redesign movements. This is understandable.
>
> The idea of significantly changing the website seems like it would be
> outside the realm of any existing committee within OSGeo. WebCom is
> primarily tasked with maintaining the existing website. Marketing is
> working on branding, providing print materials, conference attendance,
> etc. This is fine, and perfectly reasonable.
>
> My email to the board was an effort to point out that perhaps some
> effort needs to be taken *outside* the purposes typically set up by
> these committees -- that the Board should perhaps consider a seperate
> task, that of a significant web presence redesign, as important to the
> Foundation. This is not a criticism of existing efforts -- the existing
> website is a fine piece of work for what it is, adn the marketing
> committee's efforts are similarly successful at the tasks that are being
> undertaken. Simply put, website redesign has not been proposed as a task
> that belongs to either of these committees in the past -- at least, not
> that I've seen.
>
> My email was designed to bring attention to this particular aspect of
> OSGeo's success at this time.
>
> Another complaint was that I mentioned OpenGeo as doing a good job with
> creating a corporate-friendly web presence, "without making a mention of
> how much investment has gone into such branding." Allow me to clarify:
> If I thought this was a task we could snap our fingers at, then I
> wouldn't have bothered to send an email. The task of creating a
> successful brand -- successful insofar as it is recognized as completing
> the goals that people are interested in -- is one that is very hard, and
> website redesign to support that goal is often expensive. Very few
> people who are currently participating in OSGeo have the marketing
> know how to do even a portion of what I suggested.
>
> The fact that this effort is so significant is exactly why I suggested
> that the item be considered *before* the board approves budgets for
> 2009: specifically, if the board considers my suggestions, and finds
> them to have some merit, it may make some sense to address this by
> keeping some funds available for the task.
>
> I am sorry that my comments have upset people. I am not attempting to
> belittle the efforts that the marketing committee has been putting
> forward -- it is clearly doing important work. Nor am I trying to say
> that the marketing committee should be specifically taking on tasks like
> website redesign. Instead, I'm simply trying to offer some
> information/guidance, based on my own personal opinions and the feedback
> that I have been receiving of late.
>
> In my opinion, the OSGeo website does not, at this time, clearly achieve
> the following goals:
>
>  * Provide a clear, concise overview of OSGeo to first time visitors.
>  * Provide a clear description of each OSGeo project to potential
>   users considering using OSGeo software.
>  * Provide compelling evidence/information about OSGeo projects designed
>   for corporate consumption.
>
> It does, on the other hand, achieve the following goals:
>  * Provide a single stop to get access to a large quantity of
>   information about OSGeo.
>  * Provide an overview of recent news and upcoming events in the OSGeo
>   community.
>  * Provide a starting point for getting access to OSGeo projects,
>   especially if you're familiar with them already.
>
> As a resource, these things are clearly important to the existing OSGeo
> community. It's just not as clear to me that the OSGeo homepage provides
> a useful starting point for someone beginning to look at OSGeo -- either
> as a Foundation, or as a home of a project they might be interested in.
>
> Perhaps the answer is "This is not what OSGeo needs." In that case, I
> am simply wrong: that's an easy enough answer. I don't know who is best
> equipped to answer that question. I think that it comes from a variety
> of sources: Marketing, WebCom, other groups within the project, perhaps.
>
> Perhaps the answer is "This is interesting, but less important than
> supporting events." I would disagree with this based on what little
> knowledge I have, but am willing to accept that it's not worth the
> time/energy of OSGeo to investigate improved website presence.
>
> Perhaps the answer is simply "We can't afford it." This is also
> obviously a reasonable response.
>
> None of these responses would be out of line from the Marketing
> committee, or OSGeo as a whole. However, I thought it would be
> worthwhile to bring up the possibility that OSgeo's current community
> site is inefficient at turning first time visitors into people who walk
> away not knowing what OSGeo is -- in my opinion -- for consideration of
> some group of people larger than myself.
>
> I apologize, again, for upsetting people with the tone of my email. I'll
> be honest and say that I don't really understand why this would be
> upsetting, but hopefully this better explains why I think that none of
> what I said should be seen as a criticism/failure of any existing group
> within OSGeo.
>
> Best Regards,
> --
> Christopher Schmidt
> MetaCarta
> _______________________________________________
> Marketing mailing list
> Marketing at lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 19:13:45 +0100
> From: "Miguel Montesinos" <mmontesinos at prodevelop.es>
> Subject: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughts
> To: "Michael P. Gerlek" <mpg at lizardtech.com>,   "OSGeo Marketing"
>        <marketing at lists.osgeo.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <E43C32BC5843E34FB4C00CDFAAAAF7D8014013FE at australia.prodevelop.local
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> > This surprises/disappoints me.  Amongst the developer or technical
> decision
> > maker crowd, are there really still people who in don't grok at least the
> > overarching idea of open source?
>
> Lots of them! Otherwise everybody would have massively come out from the
> dark-side and joined the open-source ;-)
>
> Of course anybody knows about open source, but a strategic decission
> towards it is another question. And for these kind of decissions, I usually
> need to convince customers about the stability, quality, sustainability and
> many others -ity, regarding general open source and specific OSGeo projects.
>
> Regards,
>
> Miguel
>
>
> > -----Mensaje original-----
> > De: Michael P. Gerlek [mailto:mpg at lizardtech.com]
> > Enviado el: jueves, 11 de diciembre de 2008 18:23
> > Para: Miguel Montesinos; OSGeo Marketing
> > Asunto: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughts
> >
> > Miguel escribió:
> >
> > > I usually come up against explaining both Open Source and FOSS4G. If we
> > > don't give some guidelines about open source, it may stop some CTOs
> from
> > > going to open source, and it makes impossible therefore to adopt FOSS4G
> > > projects.
> >
> > This surprises/disappoints me.  Amongst the developer or technical
> decision
> > maker crowd, are there really still people who in don't grok at least the
> > overarching idea of open source?
> >
> > The people I meet may not know the geo world has such strong FOSS
> > offerings, and they may not be able to articulate the differences between
> > GPL and BSD licenses, but they definitely understand the general idea.
> >
> > -mpg
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 13:32:58 -0500
> From: Frank Warmerdam <warmerdam at pobox.com>
> Subject: Re: [Marketing] Feedback from Marketing Meeting
> To: "Michael P. Gerlek" <mpg at lizardtech.com>
> Cc: "marketing at lists.osgeo.org" <marketing at lists.osgeo.org>
> Message-ID: <49415CDA.4000901 at pobox.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Michael P. Gerlek wrote:
> > No apologies needed, imho -- such comments, when well thought out as
> you've
> > done, are always helpful.
> >
> > Seems to be some confusion about the "marketing" and "website" charters.
>  At
> > the risk of introducing a Naming Thread, I'd suggest the marketing team
> > should really be considered as "MarCom" (Marketing/Communications) and
> thus
> > responsible for the content/fodder on the web (whereas the icky
> > HTMLification of said fodder is decidedly not a marketing team role).
>
> Folks,
>
> I don't think the website committee has felt it couldn't create various
> content for the website like that discussed.  But the people involved
> have just not had the energy and expertise to do so.  I'm confident we
> (on the web site) would be most appreciative of content developed by
> the marketing committee for the web site, as well as suggestions for
> navigation, etc.
>
> Best regards,
> --
>
> ---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
> I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam,
> warmerdam at pobox.com
> light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam<http://pobox.com/%7Ewarmerdam>
> and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:40:17 -0800
> From: "Paul Ramsey" <pramsey at cleverelephant.ca>
> Subject: Re: [Marketing] Feedback from Marketing Meeting
> To: "Frank Warmerdam" <warmerdam at pobox.com>
> Cc: "marketing at lists.osgeo.org" <marketing at lists.osgeo.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <30fe546d0812111040q428c42b1w6ac7760306bf1e73 at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Case studies, case studies, case studies, people say. I find that it
> takes me about half a day per study. Now, I am notoriously lazy, so
> you can take that number any way you like, but there it is. And the
> reason I'm not cranking out case studies for osgeo? It doesn't really
> scratch my itch. I've got a great lead for a new postgis study burning
> a hole in my desk right now... I'll get to it, someday.
>
> P.
>
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Frank Warmerdam <warmerdam at pobox.com>
> wrote:
> > Michael P. Gerlek wrote:
> >>
> >> No apologies needed, imho -- such comments, when well thought out as
> >> you've
> >> done, are always helpful.
> >>
> >> Seems to be some confusion about the "marketing" and "website" charters.
> >>  At
> >> the risk of introducing a Naming Thread, I'd suggest the marketing team
> >> should really be considered as "MarCom" (Marketing/Communications) and
> >> thus
> >> responsible for the content/fodder on the web (whereas the icky
> >> HTMLification of said fodder is decidedly not a marketing team role).
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > I don't think the website committee has felt it couldn't create various
> > content for the website like that discussed.  But the people involved
> > have just not had the energy and expertise to do so.  I'm confident we
> > (on the web site) would be most appreciative of content developed by
> > the marketing committee for the web site, as well as suggestions for
> > navigation, etc.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > --
> >
> ---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
> > I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam,
> > warmerdam at pobox.com
> > light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam<http://pobox.com/%7Ewarmerdam>
> > and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Marketing mailing list
> > Marketing at lists.osgeo.org
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:41:43 -0800
> From: "Michael P. Gerlek" <mpg at lizardtech.com>
> Subject: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughts
> To: 'Miguel Montesinos' <mmontesinos at prodevelop.es>, OSGeo Marketing
>        <marketing at lists.osgeo.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <
> C55473998E248B4DAEC5342D698DFE851B69EB87 at sea-srv-mail.lizardtech.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Okay, so I'm likely talking to the wrong people out there :-(
>
> I just hate to see us have to spend time/money selling the general open
> source idea, when there are other groups out there are already doing that
> (and likely way better than we could).
>
> -mpg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Miguel Montesinos [mailto:mmontesinos at prodevelop.es]
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:14 AM
> To: Michael P. Gerlek; OSGeo Marketing
> Subject: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughts
>
> > This surprises/disappoints me.  Amongst the developer or technical
> decision
> > maker crowd, are there really still people who in don't grok at least the
> > overarching idea of open source?
>
> Lots of them! Otherwise everybody would have massively come out from the
> dark-side and joined the open-source ;-)
>
> Of course anybody knows about open source, but a strategic decission
> towards it is another question. And for these kind of decissions, I usually
> need to convince customers about the stability, quality, sustainability and
> many others -ity, regarding general open source and specific OSGeo projects.
>
> Regards,
>
> Miguel
>
>
> > -----Mensaje original-----
> > De: Michael P. Gerlek [mailto:mpg at lizardtech.com]
> > Enviado el: jueves, 11 de diciembre de 2008 18:23
> > Para: Miguel Montesinos; OSGeo Marketing
> > Asunto: RE: [Marketing] just some thoughts
> >
> > Miguel escribió:
> >
> > > I usually come up against explaining both Open Source and FOSS4G. If we
> > > don't give some guidelines about open source, it may stop some CTOs
> from
> > > going to open source, and it makes impossible therefore to adopt FOSS4G
> > > projects.
> >
> > This surprises/disappoints me.  Amongst the developer or technical
> decision
> > maker crowd, are there really still people who in don't grok at least the
> > overarching idea of open source?
> >
> > The people I meet may not know the geo world has such strong FOSS
> > offerings, and they may not be able to articulate the differences between
> > GPL and BSD licenses, but they definitely understand the general idea.
> >
> > -mpg
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 10:52:02 -0800
> From: "Michael P. Gerlek" <mpg at lizardtech.com>
> Subject: RE: [Marketing] Feedback from Marketing Meeting
> To: 'Paul Ramsey' <pramsey at cleverelephant.ca>, Frank Warmerdam
>        <warmerdam at pobox.com>, "marketing at lists.osgeo.org"
>        <marketing at lists.osgeo.org>
> Message-ID:
>        <
> C55473998E248B4DAEC5342D698DFE851B69EB88 at sea-srv-mail.lizardtech.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I write a lot of content fodder for my day job, but I'm not keen on doing
> more of that for OSGeo too.
>
> Which is why I fear this is something we'd have to pay to get them done up
> for us.  (I suggested Tina Cary for this at last night's meeting.)
>
> Assuming we have agreement that it would be a valuable thing.
>
>
>
>
> Note there are different kinds of "case studies", varying by length and
> media type; I'm using the term very loosely here.  Here are three samples
> I'm familiar with:
>  http://www.lizardtech.com/files/geo/casestudies/CityOfAurora.pdf
>  http://www.gisuser.com/content/view/15523/28/
>
> http://www.terragis.net/2008/11/24/obama-campaign-mapping-voters-with-mapserver-postgis-and-openlayers/
>
> Although I'll note note of them give any qualitative/quantitative ROI
> numbers or factors, which would be ideal.
>
> The last one, in fact, is being turned into a piece for my monthly
> GeoConnexion column.  And, now that I think of it, you should know that
> TylerM and I are going to compile all the 18 columns to date into one large
> OSGeo Journal issue -- which, if I do say so myself, will make a great piece
> of marketing collateral...
>
> -mpg
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Ramsey [mailto:pramsey at cleverelephant.ca]
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:40 AM
> To: Frank Warmerdam
> Cc: Michael P. Gerlek; marketing at lists.osgeo.org
> Subject: Re: [Marketing] Feedback from Marketing Meeting
>
> Case studies, case studies, case studies, people say. I find that it
> takes me about half a day per study. Now, I am notoriously lazy, so
> you can take that number any way you like, but there it is. And the
> reason I'm not cranking out case studies for osgeo? It doesn't really
> scratch my itch. I've got a great lead for a new postgis study burning
> a hole in my desk right now... I'll get to it, someday.
>
> P.
>
> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 10:32 AM, Frank Warmerdam <warmerdam at pobox.com>
> wrote:
> > Michael P. Gerlek wrote:
> >>
> >> No apologies needed, imho -- such comments, when well thought out as
> >> you've
> >> done, are always helpful.
> >>
> >> Seems to be some confusion about the "marketing" and "website" charters.
> >>  At
> >> the risk of introducing a Naming Thread, I'd suggest the marketing team
> >> should really be considered as "MarCom" (Marketing/Communications) and
> >> thus
> >> responsible for the content/fodder on the web (whereas the icky
> >> HTMLification of said fodder is decidedly not a marketing team role).
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > I don't think the website committee has felt it couldn't create various
> > content for the website like that discussed.  But the people involved
> > have just not had the energy and expertise to do so.  I'm confident we
> > (on the web site) would be most appreciative of content developed by
> > the marketing committee for the web site, as well as suggestions for
> > navigation, etc.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > --
> >
> ---------------------------------------+--------------------------------------
> > I set the clouds in motion - turn up   | Frank Warmerdam,
> > warmerdam at pobox.com
> > light and sound - activate the windows | http://pobox.com/~warmerdam<http://pobox.com/%7Ewarmerdam>
> > and watch the world go round - Rush    | Geospatial Programmer for Rent
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Marketing mailing list
> > Marketing at lists.osgeo.org
> > http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Marketing mailing list
> Marketing at lists.osgeo.org
> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>
>
> End of Marketing Digest, Vol 15, Issue 14
> *****************************************
>

-- 
Researcher @ Osaka City University
Graduate School for Creative Cities
http://gisws.media.osaka-cu.ac.jp/gistrends
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