[Oceania-Board] 2024-2025 budget
John Bryant
johnwbryant at gmail.com
Wed May 1 14:15:00 PDT 2024
Hi all, FYI:
Unfortunately our request for TGP funding from OSGeo was not approved,
see meeting
minutes
<https://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Board_Meeting_2024-04-30#FOSS4G_SotM_Oceania_TGP_Request>.
The OSGeo TGP budget has already been spent for this year.
John
On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 10:16, John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it's a good idea to model a pessimistic scenario, but the $4k
> surplus isn't that pessimistic - it's based on a conference surplus that's
> more than double Auckland's surplus.
>
> A moderately pessimistic scenario would have to contain the possibility
> the 2024 conference surplus is similar to 2023, ie ~13k. I'm optimistic
> too, but given that Auckland is a much bigger market than Hobart, and cost
> of living pressures are making people very cautious about discretionary
> spending, I think we have to consider it within the realm of possibility.
>
> I've done a moderately pessimistic "scenario 2" in the simplified sheet
> that includes this contingency. It puts the TGP at $15k, reduces other
> community investment (grants, sponsorship, WGs) by $5k, and it puts us at a
> loss of ~$12k. Hopefully very unlikely, but at this stage we just don't
> know - our most recent experience indicates that it's possible.
>
> I don't think we're in a financial position right now to allocate more
> than we've ever spent on TGP, at a point when we're at maximum uncertainty
> about conference income. Our past experience has shown us we can approach
> it progressively - allocate a modest amount now, and increase it when we
> become more confident we have the surplus to support it.
>
> I guess what I'm saying is that I think we should start small, and grow it
> when we hit sponsorship and registration targets, otherwise we run the risk
> we 1) make a large loss again next year and/or 2) have to cut
> other community investments.
>
> Cheers
> John
>
> On Wed, 24 Apr 2024 at 07:24, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi John
>>
>> I think targeting a $4 k surplus is ok in the pessimistic scenario.
>>
>> I really hope that we can deliver something like a $60 k surplus from the
>> conference, like we did in Melbourne and Wellington. I'm always fairly
>> optimistic, but I have had a lot of people say that they're excited to come
>> to Hobart, and we can handle a pretty big crowd... so maybe we'll exceed
>> expectations.
>>
>> I'm ok with starting the budget with a modest TGP allocation of $15 k
>> including the OSGeo cash and increasing if we can.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 at 19:32, John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Elisa, that's really helpful input. I had a rough idea of what
>>> had happened, but I didn't know we hadn't actually planned to do PGRSC as
>>> part of the program. So this year, should we proactively include other
>>> events in our TGP budget?
>>>
>>> Let me ask everyone... what if we zoom out for a moment, simplify, and
>>> think of the budget as having 3 major components:
>>>
>>> - *Conference surplus*: Virtually all of our income is derived from
>>> this one source, and needs to pay for everything else, so this is crucial;
>>> but it's handled in detail by another budget - we can provide oversight
>>> using that budget.
>>> - *Operational expenses*: These are relatively predictable and
>>> fixed; we can fiddle with them a bit, but it looks like they'll be
>>> somewhere in the range of $6000-10000.
>>> - *Community Investment expenses*: This is where we have the most
>>> discretion. For the current financial year we're on target to spend around
>>> $20k.
>>>
>>> *So.... what if we figure out the total amount we can afford to spend in
>>> the Community Investment category, and then allocate that into TGP, Grants,
>>> Sponsorship, and Committees/WGs?* The benefit of this approach is 1) we
>>> spend what we can afford and 2) we consider the relative impact where
>>> we invest. We have a finite amount of money - if we spend $10k on X, we
>>> can't spend it on Y or Z, even if Y or Z might actually have a bigger
>>> impact.
>>>
>>> It forces us to contend with the question: If our total community
>>> investment spend is $25k, and we spend $15k on the TGP, do we cut back on
>>> other grants and sponsorship?
>>>
>>> I've added a "simple" version to this tab of the budget sheet
>>> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gRWZXt1bZqTqNMf5sr7Ff5dH4Sp_Nabe4QoZHPPPpmw/edit#gid=1487652216>
>>> to make it a little easier to reason with, and I've adjusted a couple of
>>> numbers based on Alex's suggestions. Even with ops costs cut right back,
>>> and "only" 10k allocated to TGP, it leaves us with a relatively modest
>>> surplus of $4300. Increase the TGP to 15k and we're in the red - would need
>>> to cut it from somewhere else (or ensure we have a bigger conference
>>> surplus).
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> On Tue, 23 Apr 2024 at 15:47, eli <elipuccioni at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually I have an input re:TGP:
>>>> The higher budget we had for Auckland and (hopefully) we will have for
>>>> Hobart is aiming to enable more participation from the pacific. We have
>>>> noticed that smaller grants cut the majority of the pacific applicants off,
>>>> due to the cost of traveling. So I’m in full support of this higher
>>>> spending on TGP (no surprises here!).
>>>> Moreover, because of the problems with NZ immigration last year, we
>>>> “moved” people from Auckland to Suva, so PGRSC grantees were actually
>>>> FOSS4G winners, we didn’t have a separate budget and program for that
>>>> conference. That said, one of my personal goals would be extending the TGP
>>>> to relevant conferences in the Pacific, especially the PGRSC, but I
>>>> understand that might not be possible to implement every year and will
>>>> depend on our finances.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Elisa
>>>>
>>>> Potrebbe andar peggio...potrebbe piovere!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Il giorno mar 23 apr 2024 alle 19:36 eli <elipuccioni at gmail.com> ha
>>>> scritto:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks both Alex and John for this and support of I’m not adding much
>>>>> input in this. As Jonah said, I am too learning from your expertise and
>>>>> feel I still have a bit of learning to do before contributing more actively!
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Elisa
>>>>>
>>>>> Potrebbe andar peggio...potrebbe piovere!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Il giorno mar 23 apr 2024 alle 18:40 John Bryant via Oceania-Board <
>>>>> oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org> ha scritto:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Alex, I've made a few modifications to the sheet based on your
>>>>>> suggestions:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - split event income & expenses (I used the Hobart budget middle
>>>>>> scenario for these amounts, ex GST)
>>>>>> - split the single conference line into separate lines for each
>>>>>> event
>>>>>> - put OSGeo TGP grant into 2024 projected rather than 2025
>>>>>> budgeted
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having the conference items separated out like that is a bit more
>>>>>> complex, but I like the extra detail. The big thing that jumps out at me,
>>>>>> though, is the need to refine the conference estimates as early as we can.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Re: TGP, I'm certainly open to the suggestion of increasing it (if we
>>>>>> have good reason), I think it's an important part of what we do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be great to have more insight into how much money we
>>>>>> actually need, and what we're aiming for. By my calculations, this is what
>>>>>> we've spent over the years:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Melbourne 2018: $4650 for 7 people
>>>>>> - Wellington 2019: $9000 for 14 people
>>>>>> - Auckland 2023: $6400 for 5 people
>>>>>> - PGRSC 2023: $5100 for 3 people
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would the Hobart TGP be significantly different from Auckland? Should
>>>>>> we include other events this year (eg PGRSC) in our budget?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One other thought - in 2018 and 2019, we started off with a modest
>>>>>> budget for the TGP and increased it as we became more confident we had the
>>>>>> funds. Could this approach work for us this year as well?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> By the way, everyone, Alex and I are engaging in this, but he's
>>>>>> right, all board members should be thinking about our finances and
>>>>>> providing their input (please).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 18:32, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ok, so here's the notes from the march minutes
>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LMz-7ENIqbuE-QGhqB6ryO9bDRYFS0E4bxZMgjJQb2w/edit>
>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Intent to allocate 10k to TGP (pending FY24/25 budget
>>>>>>> discussion and approval)
>>>>>>> - Planning to request USD5k from OSGeo (Dorothy will write it up)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's a little ambiguous, but I'd like to request that we allocate
>>>>>>> $10 k from the OO budget plus the $5 k (AUD) from OSGeo.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We've kicked off the TGP early, and I'm hoping we can spend our
>>>>>>> allocation and bring as many people as we can along to the event in Hobart,
>>>>>>> so if we're as successful as we have been in past years, I'd love to
>>>>>>> increase the amount that's available too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If we have a starting point of $15 k, that will set Dorothy up
>>>>>>> nicely to start planning.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 19:44, John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thinking a bit more about TGP...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I suggest this:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> - we allocate $10k to TGP (including OSGeo $5000)
>>>>>>>> - if the OSGeo request is declined, we reconsider our allocation
>>>>>>>> - if/when conference sponsors provide extra TGP funds, we
>>>>>>>> increase the amount accordingly
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In total, this would be roughly in line with how much we spent last
>>>>>>>> year, and should be enough for the 10 TGP registrations allocated in the
>>>>>>>> conference budget, potentially with money left over for other events.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 15:28, John Bryant <johnwbryant at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wasn't at the March meeting, but it sounded like the outcome was
>>>>>>>>> that the discussion would happen later when we talked about the budget. I
>>>>>>>>> don't think we've had any other discussions about it?
>>>>>>>>> So I reckon this is the budget discussion where we should make
>>>>>>>>> that decision.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> These seem like relevant points:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> - the Hobart conf budget accounts for 10 TGP regos
>>>>>>>>> - this year we spent ~12k including the OSGeo $5k
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I haven't seen an accounting of last year's TGP (number and amount
>>>>>>>>> of grants) but it would be useful, if anyone knows about it?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 15:12, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Oh, I thought we agreed on $20 k like last year?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Apologies if I remembered wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Was the $10 k you thought we agreed including the OSGeo money?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> *Alex Leith*
>>>>>>>>>> m: +61 419 189 050
>>>>>>>>>> https://auspatious.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 5:11 PM, John Bryant <
>>>>>>>>>> johnwbryant at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks everyone, great comments so far.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Alex, one question, you said "We have earmarked $20 k for the
>>>>>>>>>>> TGP for the Hobart conference"... all I'm aware of is a discussion at the
>>>>>>>>>>> March board meeting where the outcome was: "Intent to allocate 10k to TGP
>>>>>>>>>>> (pending FY24/25 budget discussion and approval)"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Where does the $20k figure come from?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024 at 09:04, Jonah Sullivan <
>>>>>>>>>>> jonahsullivan79 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm really glad to see Alex and John engaging on the very
>>>>>>>>>>>> important topic of financial probity. I probably shouldn't have raised my
>>>>>>>>>>>> hand as treasurer, considering my lack of experience and annoying work
>>>>>>>>>>>> commitments, but I'm glad to be more involved in the process - I'm learning
>>>>>>>>>>>> a lot already.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 22 Apr 2024, 08:53 Alex Leith via Oceania-Board, <
>>>>>>>>>>>> oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For this FY, here's some comments:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - I requested travel grant funding from OSGeo a week ago
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for $3,500 USD. That should be received this FY, I expect.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - The other hard to forecast difference is sponsorship and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ticket sales for the conference, which should start happening this FY. I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>> hoping to start reaching out to potential sponsors, and some organisations
>>>>>>>>>>>>> like spending money in the current FY. I expect to have some money flowing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> in soon.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - I want to note that since our term deposits matured in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> December, and we received ~$1,800, we haven't now got any cash earning
>>>>>>>>>>>>> interest. I think it would be a good idea to put money away in a 12 month
>>>>>>>>>>>>> term deposit, as we can now achieve 4.75% interest, so on $50 k, that's
>>>>>>>>>>>>> over $2,000 of free money!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - We perhaps need a budget line for conference 2024, since
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we have paid the deposit for the venue at $14 k.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For the 2025 budget:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - The $25 k surplus is quite conservative. I think we'll
>>>>>>>>>>>>> do better than that for the conference, but it's nice to be conservative in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> budgeting!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> - We have earmarked $20 k for the TGP for the Hobart
>>>>>>>>>>>>> conference. With $5 k coming from OSGeo, that leaves a worst case of $15 k
>>>>>>>>>>>>> from OO. (This will be topped up by the conference with a portion of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> sponsorship going to TGP.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And just a note that we should be doing budgeting with the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> balance sheet in mind too. We currently have $60 k in the bank, which is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> unusually low, mostly because we have started paying expenses for the 2024
>>>>>>>>>>>>> conference, but haven't got any income yet.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now it's a fairly minor thing, but I would prefer to have a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> separate line for conference income and conference expenses. We sometimes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have smaller regional events, and it's good to see the difference in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> expense/income per event.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And one of those boring reminders too that as Board Directors,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> we need to remember that we are all individually accountable for the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> financial health of the organisation, we can't delegate that responsibility
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to others, so please engage with this important work and make sure you
>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand it!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alex
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> [image: image.png]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 21 Apr 2024 at 12:58, John Bryant via Oceania-Board <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> oceania-board at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi board,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The 2024-2025 financial year (FY25) begins on 1 July.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It would be good to move the FY25 budget forward, ideally we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can approve it in May but I'm sure there will be some discussion required.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps we can discuss in this thread over the next couple of weeks and put
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it on the agenda for further discussion at the May board meeting?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My ambition with this is to:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - come up with a realistic set of numbers we can use to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guide spending decisions in the upcoming financial year
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - set targets for income, community investment, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimately, a surplus to help keep us solvent
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - provide clear and visible financial targets and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> priorities to the community
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can you please review the attached PDF and/or the Google
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sheet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gRWZXt1bZqTqNMf5sr7Ff5dH4Sp_Nabe4QoZHPPPpmw/edit#gid=61568483>?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've listed several questions that I hope will help us move it forward.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your comments and questions please!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, 29 Mar 2024 at 16:15, John Bryant <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> johnwbryant at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We discussed at the February board meeting that we should
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> get moving on a budget for next year. I want to kick off a discussion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> towards hopefully having a first draft within the next few weeks, and a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> final draft for approval in May.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a sheet here
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gRWZXt1bZqTqNMf5sr7Ff5dH4Sp_Nabe4QoZHPPPpmw/edit#gid=0> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the current year projected and actual amounts for context.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For now, do you have any specific items on your wish list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for next year?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have a few suggestions and questions:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - *Distinct "Operational" & "Community Investment"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expense categories*. By doing this, we make sure we
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> allocate enough to keep the lights on, and then we have better sight of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what we can afford to invest in community programs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - *Separate grants and sponsorship*. They're accounted
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for separately in Xero and I think it caused some confusion this year when
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we overspent on the combined item. We ultimately increased the budget
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> amount but for a time the Grants committee was unsure if they should hit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> pause. By separating these, I think we add clarity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - *Remove "Special Interest Groups"?* We don't really
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have any SIGs (OSM SIG has never been active, QGIS SIG wound up in June
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2022). I still think we should make these kinds of investments in OSM and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> QGIS community groups of course, but maybe we do it under sponsorship and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grants line items?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> - *TGP:* At the last board meeting there was talk of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~10k for the Travel Grant Program, is this the right amount? It sounds like
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the Hobart conference may have about $5000 to add to this, depending on
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sponsorship (Alex correct me if I've got this wrong!).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Also I think we'll need to make a projection on the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> conference surplus, perhaps this is an item for discussion at the next
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> board meeting on the 3rd.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oceania-Board mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oceania-Board at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania-board
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *Alex Leith*
>>>>>>>>>>>>> m: +61 419 189 050
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://auspatious.com
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oceania-Board mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oceania-Board at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania-board
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> *Alex Leith*
>>>>>>> m: +61 419 189 050
>>>>>>> https://auspatious.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Oceania-Board mailing list
>>>>>> Oceania-Board at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania-board
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>> --
>> *Alex Leith*
>> m: +61 419 189 050
>> https://auspatious.com
>>
>
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