[OSGeo Oceania] new board starting soon and other personal considerations

[Alex Leith]

Hi Eli

I’m also not an expert, but that website says:

“*If you plan to become a director, you must apply for a director ID before
you’re appointed.*”

You must APPLY not that you must already hold one. It is an onerous
process, which is why we should start now helping those that would like to
be a director who are not Australians to apply now.

Cheers,


*Alex Leith*
m: +61 419 189 050
https://auspatious.com


On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 at 11:21 pm, eli <elipuccioni at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Greg, I feel for your concern and totally agree with you that a
> good robust review on the processes of OSGeo is due. Which is a good thing,
> meaning we are alive and evolving and happy to 'kill our darlings' for a
> better outcome. It is a slow process as it needs work and therefore time
> and energy from a bunch of volunteers. But it is very important and must be
> done.
>
> Like Alex just said better, I personally don't agree with the comments
> about that being done 'behind closed doors' as this year the board has put
> transparency very high in priorities and we have published all the meeting
> minutes, kept board meetings open to everyone, and published all the
> election requirements early in the year on the various channels. Honestly,
> nobody simply picked up this problem till it became a problem last week.
> And we should have, I should have, so I'm sorry about it. But nothing was
> hidden. Hence also my initial email.
>
> Also, I'm definitely NOT an expert here and Australians and residents know
> definitely better, but it states clearly here that you have to have a
> director id before being appointed:
>
> https://www.abrs.gov.au/director-identification-number/who-needs-apply-and-when
> As Alex pointed out, this is above our constitution and I think we did the
> right thing to acknowledge it.
>
>
> Il giorno mar 3 dic 2024 alle ore 15:06 Greg Lauer <
> gregory.lauer at gmail.com> ha scritto:
>
>> I share John's concern that three potential directors have not been
>> afforded the right to be elected. I am also somewhat concerned that a
>> decision of this magnitude happened behind closed doors and was not
>> discussed with the community in general. That said I do accept that things
>> do get a bit crazy around this time of year and that the Board was working
>> to resolve in what they thought was a fair and equitable way.
>>
>> The Directors ID process is really a mess, and is not helped by vague and
>> unclear documentation from the Australian government, and the ridiculous
>> requirements for non-Australia residents. Unfortunately, we will all
>> interpret the rules differently, and really the only way to confirm a
>> correct interpretation is a court case.  My interpretation is that to be an
>> ASIC registered Director you would need to have submitted a complete
>> application before you can act as a Director. Ask 100 people and you will
>> get 100 different interpretations.
>>
>> John comments that the board shouldn't have the right to impose new
>> eligibility requirements for nominations. I see his point of view and his
>> concerns about imposing arbitrary requirements. That said we have an issue
>> in that to meet Federal law in Australia (however we interpret that re
>> Directors ID) and that (In my mind) trumps the Constitution. I (personally)
>> feel that the Board should have some leeway in these types of decisions
>> (but maybe be a bit more transparent). We need to remember that we are an
>> all-volunteer organisation and reliant on people's time.
>>
>> Should we have a new election? I think a lesson has been learned here and
>> I am not sure a new election will resolve this. I don't think there was any
>> malicious intent in the decision and feel that the time would be better
>> spent on preparing for the next election.
>>
>> What next? As well as reviewing the next election process, I think we
>> need to go back to basics and review the appropriate structure for OSGeo
>> Oceania. I feel the structure that we put together 5+ years ago may not be
>> the appropriate structure now. From my point of view if we have to exclude
>> passionate people to lead OSGeo Oceania from outside Australia because of
>> arbitrary laws, then we have the wrong structure in place for OSGeo Oceania
>> to grow and thrive in the region.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 8:06 PM John Bryant via Oceania <
>> oceania at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Elisa & Alex, I appreciate your candour. I agree there are things
>>> OO can do to make it easier. It's upsetting to learn three people agreed to
>>> be nominated to work on behalf of our community, but weren't able to. I
>>> understand everyone has acted in good faith with the best of intentions.
>>>
>>> I think there is a significant problem that needs to be addressed with
>>> some urgency, that is whether the board actually has the right to impose
>>> new eligibility requirements for nominations. The constitution basically
>>> says that members are eligible for appointment if they are a member of OO
>>> (s74), and that any member may nominate an eligible person (s79.3).
>>>
>>> The board is responsible for laying out and executing the process, but I
>>> don't believe the board has the right to impose additional eligibility
>>> requirements as part of this process. This makes sense, because an evil
>>> board could impose arbitrary requirements to entrench themselves, by
>>> excluding people they don't like (obviously not the intent here!).
>>>
>>> This very issue came up in the 2020 OO election
>>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/oceania/2020-September/002342.html>,
>>> it was generally agreed that the board couldn't impose new eligibility
>>> restrictions above what's in the constitution, and the suggested
>>> restrictions were removed.
>>>
>>> If it were a moot point, it could be something to work on for next year,
>>> but the apparent outcome is that 1) three people have been unable to
>>> exercise their right to be nominated (assuming they're otherwise eligible),
>>> and 2) the membership is unable to exercise its right to vote on legitimate
>>> nominees.
>>>
>>> Perhaps one way to resolve this is to retrospectively strike the
>>> eligibility requirement, accept the nominations, and reschedule an election.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 at 04:23, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi John
>>>>
>>>> I agree with your interpretation, in that you only need to have applied
>>>> for a director ID, not that you must hold one.
>>>>
>>>> We had three applicants from overseas, and none of the three were able
>>>> to tell us that they had applied by the cutoff date in time, so the
>>>> returning officer ruled them ineligible.
>>>>
>>>> For what it's worth, we discussed this at length, and thought about
>>>> allowing them into the pool anyway, but it was voted on, and it was decided
>>>> to take the recommendation of the returning officer, so we didn't need an
>>>> election, since we had six candidates and six places.
>>>>
>>>> We discussed what to do differently next time, and there was a
>>>> suggestion to have the election further after the conference, since we have
>>>> a big push at the conference. And we talked about supporting potential
>>>> candidates in their applications for a director ID, by offering to cover
>>>> the costs of postage and possibly translation of documents.
>>>>
>>>> I think we need to do more to make it easier for a non-Australian to be
>>>> on our Board, and I think our recommendations will go into the process
>>>> documents for the next election.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 at 06:42, John Bryant via Oceania <
>>>> oceania at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Elisa, as I mentioned on Slack, thanks so much for your
>>>>> incredible year as chair, and I really enjoyed serving alongside you.
>>>>>
>>>>> Re Director ID, the government website says this: "If you plan to
>>>>> become a director, you must apply for a director ID before you’re
>>>>> appointed."  It seems you don't need to have a DID in hand to be put
>>>>> forward for nomination.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we've heard it's harder for non-Australians to *obtain* a
>>>>> DID, but the obligation is apparently only to *apply* before being
>>>>> appointed. Also it doesn't sound like the obligation is on OO, but on the
>>>>> individual.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe it would be more inclusive to leave it to people to apply only
>>>>> *after* they have been elected (and before they are appointed),
>>>>> rather than putting up a roadblock that may be unnecessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 at 06:32, eli via Oceania <oceania at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As you have read in our secretary Renee’s email on Friday, we didn’t
>>>>>> need elections this year as we received 6 amazing nominations for 6
>>>>>> available vacancies in the Board. I would like to share with you all some
>>>>>> very personal considerations about this (be aware: if it’s going to be a
>>>>>> long email!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s great for me to see we have a full board for next year. I’m very
>>>>>> happy to see both familiar faces and new people stepping up and deciding to
>>>>>> sacrifice a bit of their time and energy to help grow our community.
>>>>>> I personally want to thank Ponsyano and Renee for taking excellent
>>>>>> care of this year’s nominations and election process, especially
>>>>>> considering it was their first ride with it!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My bestest wishes to Ana, Dani, and Nick for their first term as
>>>>>> board members—I’m really looking forward to working with you! Also, thanks
>>>>>> again to Alex, Ewen and Jonah for deciding to stick around for another
>>>>>> term. Your work in the community is incredibly important, and we’re all
>>>>>> glad you’ll be with us next year too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It has been a pleasure—and a challenge! —being the chair this year.
>>>>>> Thanks for the trust you have given me and for the many supportive and
>>>>>> encouraging messages you’ve sent: it feels great to know that you all care
>>>>>> about the work we’re trying to do! Please don’t ever stop sending any kind
>>>>>> of feedback; we can only learn from our errors if we are aware of them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Speaking of things that still don’t work, I want to address one that
>>>>>> still worries me: the ASIC Director ID requirement for new directors. For
>>>>>> those who aren’t aware, Australian rules require everyone applying for a
>>>>>> director position to obtain a specific Director ID. This process is very
>>>>>> easy, quick and straightforward for Australian citizens but lengthy and
>>>>>> expensive for everyone else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As the current chair, I feel I have failed to find a viable solution
>>>>>> for this year’s elections, which meant only Australian candidates could be
>>>>>> successfully nominated. While I’m excited to work with the new board
>>>>>> members, who are amazing and dedicated to the community, I feel that not
>>>>>> making the process easier for people outside Australia has failed our
>>>>>> founding principles of equality and diversification and it really upsets
>>>>>> me. Oceania is full of incredibly rich culture, and an almost only
>>>>>> Australian board is by far not a full representation of it, in my opinion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For this reason, I promise we will work harder to find a better
>>>>>> solution or at least a workaround for next year. The resigning board has
>>>>>> already started brainstorming interesting ideas, including opening
>>>>>> nominations months before the elections and helping non-Australian
>>>>>> candidates with the process, both through mentoring and covering any
>>>>>> related expenses. You can get a better idea of what we’ve discussed in the
>>>>>> last meeting’s minutes, which will be uploaded to the wiki this week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We still need to work on improving the process as much as possible,
>>>>>> but rest assured we’re taking it very seriously. Of course, I am very
>>>>>> interested in hearing any feedback or ideas you might have on this matter.
>>>>>> I personally hope that those who couldn’t complete their nomination
>>>>>> applications due to the strict timeline we imposed (and I deeply apologize
>>>>>> for this) and the complexity of the ID process will still be interested in
>>>>>> supporting us and trying again next year, as well as all the other
>>>>>> non-Australian members who were put off by the process. We need all of
>>>>>> Oceania to make OSGeo Oceania work!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have a lovely end of the year, enjoy the well-deserved holiday break,
>>>>>> and to the new members, welcome aboard! I’m looking forward to our first
>>>>>> board meeting together on Friday, December 13th!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ciao, Elisa
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Oceania mailing list
>>>>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Oceania mailing list
>>>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Alex Leith*
>>>> m: +61 419 189 050
>>>> https://auspatious.com
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Oceania mailing list
>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Potrebbe andar peggio...potrebbe piovere!
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/oceania/attachments/20241202/7586f3e7/attachment-0001.htm>