[OSGeo Oceania] new board starting soon and other personal considerations

[eli]

Thanks Alex, that's good to know for me! I clearly didn' understand it
right, I apologise.
However,  In the election requirements that was explained rightly: we did
only require a written communication from the nominated people that they
had started the application process to be accepted as valid nomination.
Unfortunately, this was still too hard to achieve for three people and it
is our duty to make it easier next year.

Il giorno mar 3 dic 2024 alle ore 15:38 Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com>
ha scritto:

> Hi Eli
>
> I’m also not an expert, but that website says:
>
> “*If you plan to become a director, you must apply for a director ID
> before you’re appointed.*”
>
> You must APPLY not that you must already hold one. It is an onerous
> process, which is why we should start now helping those that would like to
> be a director who are not Australians to apply now.
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> *Alex Leith*
> m: +61 419 189 050
> https://auspatious.com
>
>
> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 at 11:21 pm, eli <elipuccioni at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Greg, I feel for your concern and totally agree with you that a
>> good robust review on the processes of OSGeo is due. Which is a good thing,
>> meaning we are alive and evolving and happy to 'kill our darlings' for a
>> better outcome. It is a slow process as it needs work and therefore time
>> and energy from a bunch of volunteers. But it is very important and must be
>> done.
>>
>> Like Alex just said better, I personally don't agree with the comments
>> about that being done 'behind closed doors' as this year the board has put
>> transparency very high in priorities and we have published all the meeting
>> minutes, kept board meetings open to everyone, and published all the
>> election requirements early in the year on the various channels. Honestly,
>> nobody simply picked up this problem till it became a problem last week.
>> And we should have, I should have, so I'm sorry about it. But nothing was
>> hidden. Hence also my initial email.
>>
>> Also, I'm definitely NOT an expert here and Australians and residents
>> know definitely better, but it states clearly here that you have to have a
>> director id before being appointed:
>>
>> https://www.abrs.gov.au/director-identification-number/who-needs-apply-and-when
>> As Alex pointed out, this is above our constitution and I think we did
>> the right thing to acknowledge it.
>>
>>
>> Il giorno mar 3 dic 2024 alle ore 15:06 Greg Lauer <
>> gregory.lauer at gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>
>>> I share John's concern that three potential directors have not been
>>> afforded the right to be elected. I am also somewhat concerned that a
>>> decision of this magnitude happened behind closed doors and was not
>>> discussed with the community in general. That said I do accept that things
>>> do get a bit crazy around this time of year and that the Board was working
>>> to resolve in what they thought was a fair and equitable way.
>>>
>>> The Directors ID process is really a mess, and is not helped by vague
>>> and unclear documentation from the Australian government, and the
>>> ridiculous requirements for non-Australia residents. Unfortunately, we will
>>> all interpret the rules differently, and really the only way to confirm a
>>> correct interpretation is a court case.  My interpretation is that to be an
>>> ASIC registered Director you would need to have submitted a complete
>>> application before you can act as a Director. Ask 100 people and you will
>>> get 100 different interpretations.
>>>
>>> John comments that the board shouldn't have the right to impose new
>>> eligibility requirements for nominations. I see his point of view and his
>>> concerns about imposing arbitrary requirements. That said we have an issue
>>> in that to meet Federal law in Australia (however we interpret that re
>>> Directors ID) and that (In my mind) trumps the Constitution. I (personally)
>>> feel that the Board should have some leeway in these types of decisions
>>> (but maybe be a bit more transparent). We need to remember that we are an
>>> all-volunteer organisation and reliant on people's time.
>>>
>>> Should we have a new election? I think a lesson has been learned here
>>> and I am not sure a new election will resolve this. I don't think there was
>>> any malicious intent in the decision and feel that the time would be better
>>> spent on preparing for the next election.
>>>
>>> What next? As well as reviewing the next election process, I think we
>>> need to go back to basics and review the appropriate structure for OSGeo
>>> Oceania. I feel the structure that we put together 5+ years ago may not be
>>> the appropriate structure now. From my point of view if we have to exclude
>>> passionate people to lead OSGeo Oceania from outside Australia because of
>>> arbitrary laws, then we have the wrong structure in place for OSGeo Oceania
>>> to grow and thrive in the region.
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 2, 2024 at 8:06 PM John Bryant via Oceania <
>>> oceania at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Elisa & Alex, I appreciate your candour. I agree there are
>>>> things OO can do to make it easier. It's upsetting to learn three people
>>>> agreed to be nominated to work on behalf of our community, but weren't able
>>>> to. I understand everyone has acted in good faith with the best of
>>>> intentions.
>>>>
>>>> I think there is a significant problem that needs to be addressed with
>>>> some urgency, that is whether the board actually has the right to impose
>>>> new eligibility requirements for nominations. The constitution basically
>>>> says that members are eligible for appointment if they are a member of OO
>>>> (s74), and that any member may nominate an eligible person (s79.3).
>>>>
>>>> The board is responsible for laying out and executing the process, but
>>>> I don't believe the board has the right to impose additional eligibility
>>>> requirements as part of this process. This makes sense, because an evil
>>>> board could impose arbitrary requirements to entrench themselves, by
>>>> excluding people they don't like (obviously not the intent here!).
>>>>
>>>> This very issue came up in the 2020 OO election
>>>> <https://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/oceania/2020-September/002342.html>,
>>>> it was generally agreed that the board couldn't impose new eligibility
>>>> restrictions above what's in the constitution, and the suggested
>>>> restrictions were removed.
>>>>
>>>> If it were a moot point, it could be something to work on for next
>>>> year, but the apparent outcome is that 1) three people have been unable to
>>>> exercise their right to be nominated (assuming they're otherwise eligible),
>>>> and 2) the membership is unable to exercise its right to vote on legitimate
>>>> nominees.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps one way to resolve this is to retrospectively strike the
>>>> eligibility requirement, accept the nominations, and reschedule an election.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 3 Dec 2024 at 04:23, Alex Leith <alexgleith at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi John
>>>>>
>>>>> I agree with your interpretation, in that you only need to have
>>>>> applied for a director ID, not that you must hold one.
>>>>>
>>>>> We had three applicants from overseas, and none of the three were able
>>>>> to tell us that they had applied by the cutoff date in time, so the
>>>>> returning officer ruled them ineligible.
>>>>>
>>>>> For what it's worth, we discussed this at length, and thought about
>>>>> allowing them into the pool anyway, but it was voted on, and it was decided
>>>>> to take the recommendation of the returning officer, so we didn't need an
>>>>> election, since we had six candidates and six places.
>>>>>
>>>>> We discussed what to do differently next time, and there was a
>>>>> suggestion to have the election further after the conference, since we have
>>>>> a big push at the conference. And we talked about supporting potential
>>>>> candidates in their applications for a director ID, by offering to cover
>>>>> the costs of postage and possibly translation of documents.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think we need to do more to make it easier for a non-Australian to
>>>>> be on our Board, and I think our recommendations will go into the process
>>>>> documents for the next election.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 at 06:42, John Bryant via Oceania <
>>>>> oceania at lists.osgeo.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Elisa, as I mentioned on Slack, thanks so much for your
>>>>>> incredible year as chair, and I really enjoyed serving alongside you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Re Director ID, the government website says this: "If you plan to
>>>>>> become a director, you must apply for a director ID before you’re
>>>>>> appointed."  It seems you don't need to have a DID in hand to be put
>>>>>> forward for nomination.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think we've heard it's harder for non-Australians to *obtain* a
>>>>>> DID, but the obligation is apparently only to *apply* before being
>>>>>> appointed. Also it doesn't sound like the obligation is on OO, but on the
>>>>>> individual.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Maybe it would be more inclusive to leave it to people to apply only
>>>>>> *after* they have been elected (and before they are appointed),
>>>>>> rather than putting up a roadblock that may be unnecessary.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> John
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 2 Dec 2024 at 06:32, eli via Oceania <oceania at lists.osgeo.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As you have read in our secretary Renee’s email on Friday, we didn’t
>>>>>>> need elections this year as we received 6 amazing nominations for 6
>>>>>>> available vacancies in the Board. I would like to share with you all some
>>>>>>> very personal considerations about this (be aware: if it’s going to be a
>>>>>>> long email!)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It’s great for me to see we have a full board for next year. I’m
>>>>>>> very happy to see both familiar faces and new people stepping up and
>>>>>>> deciding to sacrifice a bit of their time and energy to help grow our
>>>>>>> community.
>>>>>>> I personally want to thank Ponsyano and Renee for taking excellent
>>>>>>> care of this year’s nominations and election process, especially
>>>>>>> considering it was their first ride with it!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My bestest wishes to Ana, Dani, and Nick for their first term as
>>>>>>> board members—I’m really looking forward to working with you! Also, thanks
>>>>>>> again to Alex, Ewen and Jonah for deciding to stick around for another
>>>>>>> term. Your work in the community is incredibly important, and we’re all
>>>>>>> glad you’ll be with us next year too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It has been a pleasure—and a challenge! —being the chair this year.
>>>>>>> Thanks for the trust you have given me and for the many supportive and
>>>>>>> encouraging messages you’ve sent: it feels great to know that you all care
>>>>>>> about the work we’re trying to do! Please don’t ever stop sending any kind
>>>>>>> of feedback; we can only learn from our errors if we are aware of them.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Speaking of things that still don’t work, I want to address one that
>>>>>>> still worries me: the ASIC Director ID requirement for new directors. For
>>>>>>> those who aren’t aware, Australian rules require everyone applying for a
>>>>>>> director position to obtain a specific Director ID. This process is very
>>>>>>> easy, quick and straightforward for Australian citizens but lengthy and
>>>>>>> expensive for everyone else.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As the current chair, I feel I have failed to find a viable solution
>>>>>>> for this year’s elections, which meant only Australian candidates could be
>>>>>>> successfully nominated. While I’m excited to work with the new board
>>>>>>> members, who are amazing and dedicated to the community, I feel that not
>>>>>>> making the process easier for people outside Australia has failed our
>>>>>>> founding principles of equality and diversification and it really upsets
>>>>>>> me. Oceania is full of incredibly rich culture, and an almost only
>>>>>>> Australian board is by far not a full representation of it, in my opinion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For this reason, I promise we will work harder to find a better
>>>>>>> solution or at least a workaround for next year. The resigning board has
>>>>>>> already started brainstorming interesting ideas, including opening
>>>>>>> nominations months before the elections and helping non-Australian
>>>>>>> candidates with the process, both through mentoring and covering any
>>>>>>> related expenses. You can get a better idea of what we’ve discussed in the
>>>>>>> last meeting’s minutes, which will be uploaded to the wiki this week.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We still need to work on improving the process as much as possible,
>>>>>>> but rest assured we’re taking it very seriously. Of course, I am very
>>>>>>> interested in hearing any feedback or ideas you might have on this matter.
>>>>>>> I personally hope that those who couldn’t complete their nomination
>>>>>>> applications due to the strict timeline we imposed (and I deeply apologize
>>>>>>> for this) and the complexity of the ID process will still be interested in
>>>>>>> supporting us and trying again next year, as well as all the other
>>>>>>> non-Australian members who were put off by the process. We need all of
>>>>>>> Oceania to make OSGeo Oceania work!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Have a lovely end of the year, enjoy the well-deserved holiday
>>>>>>> break, and to the new members, welcome aboard! I’m looking forward to our
>>>>>>> first board meeting together on Friday, December 13th!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ciao, Elisa
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Oceania mailing list
>>>>>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Oceania mailing list
>>>>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> *Alex Leith*
>>>>> m: +61 419 189 050
>>>>> https://auspatious.com
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Oceania mailing list
>>>> Oceania at lists.osgeo.org
>>>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/oceania
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Potrebbe andar peggio...potrebbe piovere!
>>
>

-- 
Potrebbe andar peggio...potrebbe piovere!
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