[Live-demo] [Board] Retire MapTiler from OSGeo-Live

Cameron Shorter cameron.shorter at gmail.com
Fri Feb 13 00:19:26 PST 2015

Hi Eli, replying to your email, CC OSGeo-Live list (with your permission).

I agree that we don't want to be promoting a proprietary product from an 
Open Source page.

I suspect Angelos' subsequent email partially addresses your suggestions:

On 13/02/2015 10:47 am, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
> We have also discussed that in order to remove the project, we request 
> that there is an official source code repository to link to. This way 
> we can prove that the project was open source and can be forked in the 
> future. Unfortunately the main repository of the project was recently 
> deleted.
> Without this, one can have the impression that OSGeoLive and OSGeo has 
> endorsed and distributed proprietary software.
> Also we plan to introduce IceTiler in the next version of OSGeoLive.

For this OSGeo-Live release we will do what we can achieve within the 
time available.

On 13/02/2015 11:58 am, Eli Adam wrote:
> Hi Cameron,
> I know that timeline is as big of a challenge as anything else in this
> case.  I have a marketing/presentation question for you below.
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Cameron Shorter
> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Petr, OSGeo-Live team, OSGeo Board,
>> Is our OSGeoLive meeting, we discussed retiring of MapTiler from OSGeoLive.
>> CCing OSGeo Board in discussion, in case the board wish to comment.
>> Summary:
>> * MapTiler was Open Source, and was included in prior OSGeo-Live
>> distributions
>> * Petr, the author, found the Open Source business model was not working for
>> him, and has since moved future enhancements to a proprietary model.
>> * The "maptiler" brand name now points to a URL of a proprietary product.
>> * Petr has requested MapTiler be removed from OSGeo-Live.
>> * As far as I've noticed, while there has been some disappointment to loose
>> MapTiler as an Open Source project, we respect Petr's right to continue
>> development using whatever model works for him. We are now working out how
>> to cleanly transition.
>> Of note:
>> * We have prior OSGeo-Live releases and documentation which reference the
>> previous Open Source Maptiler.
>> * OSGeo-Live wish to retain our reputation of promoting Open Source
>> products, both now, and in the past.
>> Proposal for our imminent OSGeo-Live 8.5 release:
>> * OSGeoLive will add a statement to our contents page [1] stating:
>> "Maptiler: not included after OSGeo-Live 8.0, after project moved to
>> proprietary business model"
On 13/02/2015 11:58 am, Eli Adam wrote:
> This seems odd to reference proprietary software at all.  The contents
> page [1] is a wonderful showcase of *open source* software.  Why
> include an advertisement to go look for a proprietary software that
> started as open source?  Linking to the last open source code with no
> name makes more sense to me (I know that isn't possible unless we put
> the code somewhere).  Or linking to http://gdal.org/gdal2tiles.html
> which has some similar functionality and common ancestry.  Looks like
> maybe licenses have varied in different points in time from different
> sources too.  On the short timeline, there is no fork and no name to
> link to yet.  If there were a fork and name would you list and link
> that?  If so would you list or link "MapTiler" too?
> You could link (or save all the information from),
> https://web.archive.org/web/20131216172514/http://www.maptiler.org/
> The Google Code SVN repo is also accessible through that method.  It
> appears that google code svn still works, for instance, svn checkout
> http://maptiler.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ maptiler-read-only
> I'm sure that you'll work it out fine but just wanted you to think
> about the appearance of that list of *open source* software.  How do
> you want the main list of open source geo software to appear?  I think
> that should be the primary purpose (and fits with the OSGeo Live
> project goals).
> Best regards, Eli
>> * The Maptiler Project Overview [2] will be updated to explain that MapTiler
>> was Open Source, but future developments were proprietary. The Overview will
>> reference the last Open Source version of software available.
>> * The Maptiler Quickstart will be removed from docs, (but still available in
>> subversion)
>> * The maptiler installer will be disabled so MapTiler will not be
>> distributed on OSGeo-Live.
>> If anyone has objections or comments, please raise them within 48 hours (15
>> Feb 2015) such that we can address them before our release.
>> Most (not all) of the history on this conversation has been copied below.
>> [1] http://live.osgeo.org/en/overview/overview.html
>> [2] http://live.osgeo.org/en/overview/maptiler_overview.html
>> On 13/02/2015 4:29 am, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> I definitely agree here with Howard.
>> Since Maptiler has been included in OSGeoLive for 5 years now, and Petr has
>> agreed to follow the OSGeoLive license for his contribution, there has to be
>> some kind of lineage about this project online. It cannot just disappear.
>> People would think that OSGeo endorced non-free software in the past, which
>> is not acceptable in my opinion.
>> We need an "official" public repository including the last version of the
>> open source code to link to. We should then link to that in our documents
>> (even if the project is removed). Cameron has already moved the documents in
>> the "retired" area.
>> I agree that the Maptiler name has to be removed from OSGeoLive in future
>> versions. But, the request for removal came much after our official 8.5 code
>> freeze, so I am against removing stuff from 8.5 especially 10 days before
>> release.
>> I propose we keep the installer for 8.5 (unless Petr provides a new deb
>> version with a new name).
>> I also propose to remove the Maptiler documents completely for this release.
>> Then, as Johan suggested we can fork Maptiler as Icetiler for the next
>> OSGeoLive 9.0 release and restore the docs.
>> Best,
>> Angelos
>> PS. I also want to thank Petr for his work on Maptiler, it is much
>> appreciated.
>> On 02/09/2015 11:46 AM, Johan Van de Wauw wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> First of all I would like to thank Petr for his work on Maptiler. He
>> has actually spent a lot of unpaid time to develop a tool which is
>> useful for many users.
>> Earning a living from open-source is hard - as most people who have
>> tried will be able to tell you.
>> Second I would like to point out that a project that has many users
>> and little contributors is not necessarily unsuccessful.  If your tool
>> is working well, it may not scratch a developers itch[1].
>> Anyway, it seems that by retiring from OsGeo live you did hit many
>> developers itch, so it seems this may actually be a rebirth of the
>> project.
>> I think that the request of Petr is fair: the code remains free (which
>> it should, because there can be many derived works), but he just
>> requests not to use the name and logo. This leaves room for other
>> developers to jump in and create a new version. Yesterday on IRC, I
>> proposed the name "IceTiler" as an alternative, based on the
>> rebranding done by debian for many mozilla projects [2]. Other
>> suggestions are welcome :-)
>> Taking all into account I'm +1 on removing this project from OsGeo
>> live in the current form, but I think we could have "IceTiler" in a
>> next release if there is sufficient interest.
>> Kind Regards,
>> Johan
>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar
>> [2]
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation_software_rebranded_by_the_Debian_project
>> _______________________________________________
>> Live-demo mailing list
>> Live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
>> http://live.osgeo.org
>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>> .
>> On 9/02/2015 12:09 pm, Jody Garnett wrote:
>> Trademarks is one of those issues we tend to handle off-list with mentor and
>> project  leadership (and/or the board if required).
>> In this case the author and trademark owner in one in the same (and has a
>> fairly clear request).
>> My limited understanding is the board will need to care about trademarks in
>> source code that has been contributed to OSGe (which is not a requirement of
>> participation). I expect they will only need to care in the US (since that
>> is where the organization is based) but that is up to legal council, IANAL
>> etc...
>> It is relatively common for open source projects to be renamed due to TM
>> conflict. This is a service a software foundation can provide, apache has
>> strict management of trademarks, eclipse does a trademark check prior to
>> accepting a project into incubation etc... But it is not clear cut - Debian
>> for example refuses to include firefox as that name is trademarked (and not
>> "free" and reusable ),
>> --
>> Jody Garnett
>> On 7 February 2015 at 17:03, Even Rouault <even.rouault at spatialys.com>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> (adding incubator@ as it is both of interest I think for OSGeo-Live &
>>> incubator)
>>> I will not argue about this particular case, but this does raise an
>>> interesting question about how we should handle trademark issues (perhaps
>>> this
>>> has been discussed in the past, so sorry if I come after the battle)
>>> The OSGeo incubation application questionnaire
>>> http://www.osgeo.org/incubator/process/application.html mentions:
>>> "Is the code free of patents, trademarks, and do you control the
>>> copyright? "
>>> It does not address clearly the issue of trademark of the *name of the
>>> project* (it mentions just the *code*).
>>> I'm not sure if there should be a policy regarding ownership of the
>>> trademark
>>> of the name of a project, but at least it could be asked if there's a
>>> trademark on the name, and who owns it (and in which countries...) ? As
>>> the
>>> below example shows, this can have impact on the future of the project.
>>> But
>>> this is likely complex.
>>> - What if someone from a random country comes and says "eh this project
>>> conflicts with my trademark in Foobarland" ? Which countries should OSGeo
>>> care
>>> about ? Or perhaps this is too complex and the only real answer to those
>>> questions is when you are assigned to a court ;-)
>>> - And even if the trademark is owned by someone/an entity which is
>>> strongly
>>> related to the project, things can evolve over time. So shouldn't the
>>> trademark be transfered to OSGeo control to guarantee fairness of use ?
>>> But
>>> that would mean that OSGeo would have to pay the costs of registration.
>>> For the record, I did the exercice of quick searching which OSGeo projects
>>> are
>>> trademarked in France ( http://bases-marques.inpi.fr/ ) and it *seems*
>>> (only a
>>> search by a specialist in I.P would confirm it) that only QGIS and
>>> GeoMajas are
>>> (and both have E.U. wide validity). (There are unrelated matches for
>>> Geotools,
>>> Marble and OSSIM). OSGeo itself isn't trademarked. And apparently MapTiler
>>> neither.
>>> In the incubating projects, gvSIG is trademarked (E.U wide). Unrelated
>>> matches
>>> for "the zoo project" and OTB.  Rasdaman is registered in Germany.
>>> Even
>>>> Hi everybody,
>>>> Let me clarify the situation:
>>>> - The original MapTiler (python + wxWidgets) is discontinued and
>>>> unfortunately it failed as an open-source project in my eyes. The
>>>> software
>>>> attracted quite a lot of end users, but no 3rd party developers. There
>>>> was
>>>> not a single commit from any third-party ever to the MapTiler project
>>>> code
>>>> itself, probably because the graphical utility was used mostly by
>>>> non-programmers. The otherwise great project stalled for some time. I
>>>> have
>>>> not seen how to move it forward without any financial support, while not
>>>> being a student anymore - and it made me really sad.
>>>> - Since 2011, I work with my team on a completely new implementation of
>>>> an
>>>> efficient tiling utility, the new MapTiler usable both from the
>>>> command-line as well as from the graphical user interface, written in
>>>> C++
>>>> and QT. It is significantly faster, merges multiple files in different
>>>> srs,
>>>> handles correctly dateline crossing and world maps, tiles in
>>>> non-mercator
>>>> grids, it directly produces small and optimized jpg and pngs, it is
>>>> compatible with OGC WMTS, contains uploader to Amazon S3 and Google
>>>> Cloud
>>>> Storage, supports different layers on different zoom levels (see
>>>> http://goo.gl/TCrGtQ and other tutorials), and it comes with many other
>>>> new
>>>> features, with installers, regular updates, support and maintenance. It
>>>> runs on Win/Lin/Mac - see http://www.maptiler.com/ for more information.
>>>> With my colleagues we are trying to do our job as good as we can.
>>>> It is a complete rewrite of the original utility, fixing design flaws
>>>> and
>>>> implementation issues of both GDAL2Tiles and original MapTiler. To be
>>>> able
>>>> to support the utility and to work on new features we ask for a license
>>>> fee.
>>>> - There was no financial support from Google Summer of Code nor from
>>>> OSGeo
>>>> on the original MapTiler.
>>>> -  Both my Google SoC in 2007 and 2008 were on the GDAL2TIles
>>>> command-line
>>>> utility, lead by Howard.
>>>> My original GDAL2Tiles from 2007 is available at
>>>> http://www.klokan.cz/projects/gdal2tiles/ and the version from 2008 is
>>>> distributed together with GDAL library, with patches and some fixes,
>>>> mostly
>>>> from Evan.
>>>> As Even pointed out - I started to work on the MapTiler during August
>>>> 2008,
>>>> after the second SoC. BRGM mentioned in the code of GDAL2Tiles.py
>>>> supported
>>>> improvements of GDAL2Tiles, not MapTiler project.
>>>> - As the sole author of MapTiler and the owner of the MapTiler trademark
>>>> I
>>>> would like to request complete removal of the MapTiler from the OSGeo
>>>> LiveDVD. I have prepared the existing .deb package as well as supplied
>>>> the
>>>> quickstart and installation scripts to the svn about 5 years back.
>>>> - If anybody is interested to revive my original open-source project
>>>> published under an open-source license, he is welcomed to do that -
>>>> under
>>>> the conditions of the original license, while preserving the original
>>>> copyright notice, and under the condition his fork of the project is not
>>>> anymore called MapTiler and does not use original graphical elements and
>>>> desktop icon of the original application.
>>>> - The existence of the two projects of the same name is confusing the
>>>> people and I want to avoid it. I hope you respect my decision. The old
>>>> MapTiler is dead, long live the MapTiler! ;-)
>>>> - I continue to work on several other open-source projects and with my
>>>> team
>>>> I keep developing, contributing and improving on OL3Cesium, OpenLayers
>>>> V3,
>>>> WebGL Earth, EPSG.io, IIPImage, GDAL and other projects. See our github
>>>> and
>>>> blog for details: http://www.klokantech.com/.
>>>> Open-source is indeed very powerful and viable on components and I can't
>>>> imagine to live without it. Still, there are situations, where it is
>>>> simply
>>>> not applicable.
>>>> I am proud to be part of OSGeo and I am keen to continue to contribute
>>>> to
>>>> the community in future. I admire and honor people like Frank or Evan
>>>> and
>>>> others. You have my true respect for what you do and what you have
>>>> achieved!
>>>> Best regards,
>>>> Petr Pridal, Ph.D.
>>>> Klokan Technologies GmbH
>>>> P.S.
>>>> If anybody is interested in even more background of the evolution of
>>>> MapTiler you can read:
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/maptiler/r9Xa8S_S4Z8/7pJoqKR1MM0J
>>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Cameron Shorter
>>>> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I've had a request from the MapTiler project to have it removed from
>>>>> OSGeo-Live.
>>>>> I've raised a ticket:
>>>>> https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1467
>>>>> I'll look after updating the docs.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cameron Shorter,
>>>>> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>>>> LISAsoft
>>>>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>>>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>>>> P +61 2 9009 5000,  W www.lisasoft.com,  F +61 2 9009 5099
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Live-demo mailing list
>>>>> Live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
>>>>> http://live.osgeo.org
>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>>> --
>>> Spatialys - Geospatial professional services
>>> http://www.spatialys.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Incubator mailing list
>>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>> _______________________________________________
>> Incubator mailing list
>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>> --
>> Cameron Shorter,
>> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>> LISAsoft
>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>> P +61 2 9009 5000,  W www.lisasoft.com,  F +61 2 9009 5099
>> _______________________________________________
>> Board mailing list
>> Board at lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board

Cameron Shorter,
Software and Data Solutions Manager
Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009

P +61 2 9009 5000,  W www.lisasoft.com,  F +61 2 9009 5099

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