[Live-demo] [Board] Retire MapTiler from OSGeo-Live

Angelos Tzotsos gcpp.kalxas at gmail.com
Fri Feb 13 04:48:31 PST 2015

Hi Eli,

On 02/13/2015 05:45 AM, Eli Adam wrote:
> Angelos, Have you tried: svn checkout
> http://maptiler.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ maptiler or looking around
> for other copies of the last open source version?

Thanks for the link.
I was looking at http://maptiler.googlecode.com which pointed to
Indeed, this svn link is exactly what we need.

> I didn't use
> MapTiler or the similar projects very much but always paid some
> attention.  Here is what I recall, but it isn't great information.  In
> the past, I recall at least three places to access various versions of
> the open source code: gdal2tiles, MapTiler.org (and I think the Google
> code version was supposed to match this), and the Klokan website which
> continues to make contributions to open source.  I vaguely had the
> impression that each of these were slightly different but also very
> similar and never really figured it out.
> I think that the OSGeo Live project, and in particular the contents
> page, is a great showcase of exclusively open source geo-software.

So your proposal is to completely remove any mention of Maptiler from 
the upcoming version.

Thanks for the feedback!


> Best regards, Eli
> [1] http://live.osgeo.org/en/overview/overview.html
> On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Angelos Tzotsos <gcpp.kalxas at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Cameron,
>> We have also discussed that in order to remove the project, we request that
>> there is an official source code repository to link to. This way we can
>> prove that the project was open source and can be forked in the future.
>> Unfortunately the main repository of the project was recently deleted.
>> Without this, one can have the impression that OSGeoLive and OSGeo has
>> endorsed and distributed proprietary software.
>> Also we plan to introduce IceTiler in the next version of OSGeoLive.
>> Best,
>> Angelos
>> On Fri, Feb 13, 2015 at 12:23 AM, Cameron Shorter
>> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi Petr, OSGeo-Live team, OSGeo Board,
>>> Is our OSGeoLive meeting, we discussed retiring of MapTiler from
>>> OSGeoLive.
>>> CCing OSGeo Board in discussion, in case the board wish to comment.
>>> Summary:
>>> * MapTiler was Open Source, and was included in prior OSGeo-Live
>>> distributions
>>> * Petr, the author, found the Open Source business model was not working
>>> for him, and has since moved future enhancements to a proprietary model.
>>> * The "maptiler" brand name now points to a URL of a proprietary product.
>>> * Petr has requested MapTiler be removed from OSGeo-Live.
>>> * As far as I've noticed, while there has been some disappointment to
>>> loose MapTiler as an Open Source project, we respect Petr's right to
>>> continue development using whatever model works for him. We are now working
>>> out how to cleanly transition.
>>> Of note:
>>> * We have prior OSGeo-Live releases and documentation which reference the
>>> previous Open Source Maptiler.
>>> * OSGeo-Live wish to retain our reputation of promoting Open Source
>>> products, both now, and in the past.
>>> Proposal for our imminent OSGeo-Live 8.5 release:
>>> * OSGeoLive will add a statement to our contents page [1] stating:
>>> "Maptiler: not included after OSGeo-Live 8.0, after project moved to
>>> proprietary business model"
>>> * The Maptiler Project Overview [2] will be updated to explain that
>>> MapTiler was Open Source, but future developments were proprietary. The
>>> Overview will reference the last Open Source version of software available.
>>> * The Maptiler Quickstart will be removed from docs, (but still available
>>> in subversion)
>>> * The maptiler installer will be disabled so MapTiler will not be
>>> distributed on OSGeo-Live.
>>> If anyone has objections or comments, please raise them within 48 hours
>>> (15 Feb 2015) such that we can address them before our release.
>>> Most (not all) of the history on this conversation has been copied below.
>>> [1] http://live.osgeo.org/en/overview/overview.html
>>> [2] http://live.osgeo.org/en/overview/maptiler_overview.html
>>> On 13/02/2015 4:29 am, Angelos Tzotsos wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> I definitely agree here with Howard.
>>> Since Maptiler has been included in OSGeoLive for 5 years now, and Petr
>>> has agreed to follow the OSGeoLive license for his contribution, there has
>>> to be some kind of lineage about this project online. It cannot just
>>> disappear. People would think that OSGeo endorced non-free software in the
>>> past, which is not acceptable in my opinion.
>>> We need an "official" public repository including the last version of the
>>> open source code to link to. We should then link to that in our documents
>>> (even if the project is removed). Cameron has already moved the documents in
>>> the "retired" area.
>>> I agree that the Maptiler name has to be removed from OSGeoLive in future
>>> versions. But, the request for removal came much after our official 8.5 code
>>> freeze, so I am against removing stuff from 8.5 especially 10 days before
>>> release.
>>> I propose we keep the installer for 8.5 (unless Petr provides a new deb
>>> version with a new name).
>>> I also propose to remove the Maptiler documents completely for this
>>> release.
>>> Then, as Johan suggested we can fork Maptiler as Icetiler for the next
>>> OSGeoLive 9.0 release and restore the docs.
>>> Best,
>>> Angelos
>>> PS. I also want to thank Petr for his work on Maptiler, it is much
>>> appreciated.
>>> On 02/09/2015 11:46 AM, Johan Van de Wauw wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> First of all I would like to thank Petr for his work on Maptiler. He
>>> has actually spent a lot of unpaid time to develop a tool which is
>>> useful for many users.
>>> Earning a living from open-source is hard - as most people who have
>>> tried will be able to tell you.
>>> Second I would like to point out that a project that has many users
>>> and little contributors is not necessarily unsuccessful.  If your tool
>>> is working well, it may not scratch a developers itch[1].
>>> Anyway, it seems that by retiring from OsGeo live you did hit many
>>> developers itch, so it seems this may actually be a rebirth of the
>>> project.
>>> I think that the request of Petr is fair: the code remains free (which
>>> it should, because there can be many derived works), but he just
>>> requests not to use the name and logo. This leaves room for other
>>> developers to jump in and create a new version. Yesterday on IRC, I
>>> proposed the name "IceTiler" as an alternative, based on the
>>> rebranding done by debian for many mozilla projects [2]. Other
>>> suggestions are welcome :-)
>>> Taking all into account I'm +1 on removing this project from OsGeo
>>> live in the current form, but I think we could have "IceTiler" in a
>>> next release if there is sufficient interest.
>>> Kind Regards,
>>> Johan
>>> [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cathedral_and_the_Bazaar
>>> [2]
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Corporation_software_rebranded_by_the_Debian_project
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Live-demo mailing list
>>> Live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
>>> http://live.osgeo.org
>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>>> .
>>> On 9/02/2015 12:09 pm, Jody Garnett wrote:
>>> Trademarks is one of those issues we tend to handle off-list with mentor
>>> and project  leadership (and/or the board if required).
>>> In this case the author and trademark owner in one in the same (and has a
>>> fairly clear request).
>>> My limited understanding is the board will need to care about trademarks
>>> in source code that has been contributed to OSGe (which is not a requirement
>>> of participation). I expect they will only need to care in the US (since
>>> that is where the organization is based) but that is up to legal council,
>>> IANAL etc...
>>> It is relatively common for open source projects to be renamed due to TM
>>> conflict. This is a service a software foundation can provide, apache has
>>> strict management of trademarks, eclipse does a trademark check prior to
>>> accepting a project into incubation etc... But it is not clear cut - Debian
>>> for example refuses to include firefox as that name is trademarked (and not
>>> "free" and reusable ),
>>> --
>>> Jody Garnett
>>> On 7 February 2015 at 17:03, Even Rouault <even.rouault at spatialys.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>> (adding incubator@ as it is both of interest I think for OSGeo-Live &
>>>> incubator)
>>>> I will not argue about this particular case, but this does raise an
>>>> interesting question about how we should handle trademark issues (perhaps
>>>> this
>>>> has been discussed in the past, so sorry if I come after the battle)
>>>> The OSGeo incubation application questionnaire
>>>> http://www.osgeo.org/incubator/process/application.html mentions:
>>>> "Is the code free of patents, trademarks, and do you control the
>>>> copyright? "
>>>> It does not address clearly the issue of trademark of the *name of the
>>>> project* (it mentions just the *code*).
>>>> I'm not sure if there should be a policy regarding ownership of the
>>>> trademark
>>>> of the name of a project, but at least it could be asked if there's a
>>>> trademark on the name, and who owns it (and in which countries...) ? As
>>>> the
>>>> below example shows, this can have impact on the future of the project.
>>>> But
>>>> this is likely complex.
>>>> - What if someone from a random country comes and says "eh this project
>>>> conflicts with my trademark in Foobarland" ? Which countries should OSGeo
>>>> care
>>>> about ? Or perhaps this is too complex and the only real answer to those
>>>> questions is when you are assigned to a court ;-)
>>>> - And even if the trademark is owned by someone/an entity which is
>>>> strongly
>>>> related to the project, things can evolve over time. So shouldn't the
>>>> trademark be transfered to OSGeo control to guarantee fairness of use ?
>>>> But
>>>> that would mean that OSGeo would have to pay the costs of registration.
>>>> For the record, I did the exercice of quick searching which OSGeo
>>>> projects are
>>>> trademarked in France ( http://bases-marques.inpi.fr/ ) and it *seems*
>>>> (only a
>>>> search by a specialist in I.P would confirm it) that only QGIS and
>>>> GeoMajas are
>>>> (and both have E.U. wide validity). (There are unrelated matches for
>>>> Geotools,
>>>> Marble and OSSIM). OSGeo itself isn't trademarked. And apparently
>>>> MapTiler
>>>> neither.
>>>> In the incubating projects, gvSIG is trademarked (E.U wide). Unrelated
>>>> matches
>>>> for "the zoo project" and OTB.  Rasdaman is registered in Germany.
>>>> Even
>>>>> Hi everybody,
>>>>> Let me clarify the situation:
>>>>> - The original MapTiler (python + wxWidgets) is discontinued and
>>>>> unfortunately it failed as an open-source project in my eyes. The
>>>>> software
>>>>> attracted quite a lot of end users, but no 3rd party developers. There
>>>>> was
>>>>> not a single commit from any third-party ever to the MapTiler project
>>>>> code
>>>>> itself, probably because the graphical utility was used mostly by
>>>>> non-programmers. The otherwise great project stalled for some time. I
>>>>> have
>>>>> not seen how to move it forward without any financial support, while
>>>>> not
>>>>> being a student anymore - and it made me really sad.
>>>>> - Since 2011, I work with my team on a completely new implementation of
>>>>> an
>>>>> efficient tiling utility, the new MapTiler usable both from the
>>>>> command-line as well as from the graphical user interface, written in
>>>>> C++
>>>>> and QT. It is significantly faster, merges multiple files in different
>>>>> srs,
>>>>> handles correctly dateline crossing and world maps, tiles in
>>>>> non-mercator
>>>>> grids, it directly produces small and optimized jpg and pngs, it is
>>>>> compatible with OGC WMTS, contains uploader to Amazon S3 and Google
>>>>> Cloud
>>>>> Storage, supports different layers on different zoom levels (see
>>>>> http://goo.gl/TCrGtQ and other tutorials), and it comes with many other
>>>>> new
>>>>> features, with installers, regular updates, support and maintenance. It
>>>>> runs on Win/Lin/Mac - see http://www.maptiler.com/ for more
>>>>> information.
>>>>> With my colleagues we are trying to do our job as good as we can.
>>>>> It is a complete rewrite of the original utility, fixing design flaws
>>>>> and
>>>>> implementation issues of both GDAL2Tiles and original MapTiler. To be
>>>>> able
>>>>> to support the utility and to work on new features we ask for a license
>>>>> fee.
>>>>> - There was no financial support from Google Summer of Code nor from
>>>>> OSGeo
>>>>> on the original MapTiler.
>>>>> -  Both my Google SoC in 2007 and 2008 were on the GDAL2TIles
>>>>> command-line
>>>>> utility, lead by Howard.
>>>>> My original GDAL2Tiles from 2007 is available at
>>>>> http://www.klokan.cz/projects/gdal2tiles/ and the version from 2008 is
>>>>> distributed together with GDAL library, with patches and some fixes,
>>>>> mostly
>>>>> from Evan.
>>>>> As Even pointed out - I started to work on the MapTiler during August
>>>>> 2008,
>>>>> after the second SoC. BRGM mentioned in the code of GDAL2Tiles.py
>>>>> supported
>>>>> improvements of GDAL2Tiles, not MapTiler project.
>>>>> - As the sole author of MapTiler and the owner of the MapTiler
>>>>> trademark I
>>>>> would like to request complete removal of the MapTiler from the OSGeo
>>>>> LiveDVD. I have prepared the existing .deb package as well as supplied
>>>>> the
>>>>> quickstart and installation scripts to the svn about 5 years back.
>>>>> - If anybody is interested to revive my original open-source project
>>>>> published under an open-source license, he is welcomed to do that -
>>>>> under
>>>>> the conditions of the original license, while preserving the original
>>>>> copyright notice, and under the condition his fork of the project is
>>>>> not
>>>>> anymore called MapTiler and does not use original graphical elements
>>>>> and
>>>>> desktop icon of the original application.
>>>>> - The existence of the two projects of the same name is confusing the
>>>>> people and I want to avoid it. I hope you respect my decision. The old
>>>>> MapTiler is dead, long live the MapTiler! ;-)
>>>>> - I continue to work on several other open-source projects and with my
>>>>> team
>>>>> I keep developing, contributing and improving on OL3Cesium, OpenLayers
>>>>> V3,
>>>>> WebGL Earth, EPSG.io, IIPImage, GDAL and other projects. See our github
>>>>> and
>>>>> blog for details: http://www.klokantech.com/.
>>>>> Open-source is indeed very powerful and viable on components and I
>>>>> can't
>>>>> imagine to live without it. Still, there are situations, where it is
>>>>> simply
>>>>> not applicable.
>>>>> I am proud to be part of OSGeo and I am keen to continue to contribute
>>>>> to
>>>>> the community in future. I admire and honor people like Frank or Evan
>>>>> and
>>>>> others. You have my true respect for what you do and what you have
>>>>> achieved!
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Petr Pridal, Ph.D.
>>>>> Klokan Technologies GmbH
>>>>> P.S.
>>>>> If anybody is interested in even more background of the evolution of
>>>>> MapTiler you can read:
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/maptiler/r9Xa8S_S4Z8/7pJoqKR1MM0J
>>>>> On Fri, Feb 6, 2015 at 9:24 PM, Cameron Shorter
>>>>> <cameron.shorter at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> I've had a request from the MapTiler project to have it removed from
>>>>>> OSGeo-Live.
>>>>>> I've raised a ticket:
>>>>>> https://trac.osgeo.org/osgeo/ticket/1467
>>>>>> I'll look after updating the docs.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Cameron Shorter,
>>>>>> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>>>>> LISAsoft
>>>>>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>>>>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>>>>> P +61 2 9009 5000,  W www.lisasoft.com,  F +61 2 9009 5099
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Live-demo mailing list
>>>>>> Live-demo at lists.osgeo.org
>>>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/live-demo
>>>>>> http://live.osgeo.org
>>>>>> http://wiki.osgeo.org/wiki/Live_GIS_Disc
>>>> --
>>>> Spatialys - Geospatial professional services
>>>> http://www.spatialys.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Incubator mailing list
>>>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
>>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Incubator mailing list
>>> Incubator at lists.osgeo.org
>>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/incubator
>>> --
>>> Cameron Shorter,
>>> Software and Data Solutions Manager
>>> LISAsoft
>>> Suite 112, Jones Bay Wharf,
>>> 26 - 32 Pirrama Rd, Pyrmont NSW 2009
>>> P +61 2 9009 5000,  W www.lisasoft.com,  F +61 2 9009 5099
>> --
>> Angelos Tzotsos
>> Remote Sensing Laboratory
>> National Technical University of Athens
>> http://users.ntua.gr/tzotsos
>> _______________________________________________
>> Board mailing list
>> Board at lists.osgeo.org
>> http://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/board
> .

Angelos Tzotsos
Remote Sensing Laboratory
National Technical University of Athens

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