[Qgis-community-team] [Qgis-user] [Qgis-psc] User question of the month

Wed Oct 16 17:44:13 PDT 2019

Hey all,

I think we have to be very careful taking the results of a limited survey
and making major changes to the project.   It's a sample set but only a
very very small sample set.

There has been a bit of talk around the documentation but reducing the
efforting is the wrong way to go and I don't think we should support that
move as it will just lead to no documentation which is how we started.
 This is a problem for even large enterprise companies so we will not find
a quick fix or one that works right 100% of the time.  QGIS also has a
massive footprint compared to something like Postgres so using that as an
example is a bit tricky.   Postgres is large but also has not UI so listing
commands and examples are a lot easier.

I personally find some of the technical issues as quite a blocker for
people to help.  It's what stops me most of the time and I'm conformable
with the tools, last time I tried on Windows I just gave up because it was
too much work and I only have limited time these days.  I'm not sure what
the solution here is but I don't know if moving to something like GitHub
Markdown or Google Docs is the option, mainly because of it throws away a
lot of the work we have already done.  Having said that though this is a
pain point that might help address some of the community involvement if we
can solve it.   It's not the only problem though like Alexandre said it's
just not fun work at times and it can be hard to even write good docs when
that is your job and you have a good platform to do it in.

Regards,
Nathan

On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 9:47 AM Alexandre Neto <senhor.neto at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi Tim,
>
> Thanks for sharing.
>
> I must say I am quite disappointed. I would expect more support from the
> PSC, not less...
>
> I am not sure the bottleneck is the documentation structure complexity.
> It's just not a sexy work. Like testing... People don't even like to
> discuss it.
>
> From previous talks with the "docs team" we all agreed that moving away
> from sphinx would be a bad move.
>
> I don't think many people will join the documentation effort just because
> we moved to markdown or google docs. If they do, they probably won't stick
> around for long (my personal feeling), and who ever is left will have an
> harder task to keep the docs updated.
>
> Unless we skip versioning all together, we still need pull requests,
> commits, conflict resolution... which is, IMHO is the worst part for new
> comers.
>
> BTW, sphinx can use markdown as an input format, it renders quite well in
> github, but you lose most of the benefits of using RST.
>
> Anyway, again, thanks Tim for sharing the PSC thoughts on this.
>
> Alexandre Neto
>
>
> A quinta, 17/10/2019, 00:09, Tim Sutton <tim at kartoza.com> escreveu:
>
>> Hi Alexandre
>>
>> On 16 Oct 2019, at 01:33, Alexandre Neto <senhor.neto at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> Sorry for the long email. Hope I don't kill the thread.
>> I have been analyzing both the quantitative and qualitative answers, and
>> from it can't say that people don't use it.
>>
>> It's clear that people often search for help a lot:
>> While using QGIS, around 45% of people search for help at least one time
>> per week (half of those use QGIS official docs), while 12% look for it
>> daily (but only 2% use QGIS Official Docs). "Only" 35 % says that rarely or
>> never use QGIS Docs, which is not a bad figure, I think.
>>
>> About what is the first source for searching information, search engines
>> came first, but it's unclear what the search leads them to. A stronger
>> contestant seems to be gis.stackexchage, which is the first choice for
>> almost the double of the number of people that uses QGIS Docs as the first
>> choice. I think the qualitative answers shed some light on it. Many people
>> stated that they want more how to's and more examples, which is
>> stackexchage bread and butter. Many said that we should improve the search
>> capacities of our docs, which may explain why they don't find answers in
>> our docs. So, like Tom said, better SEO and internal search may make our
>> documentation more valuable.
>>
>> In terms of QGIS Docs quality, 32% says they often find what they were
>> looking for and 42 % sometimes, which to me is a 5 (from 1 to 10), but
>> seems that definitely needs improving.
>>
>> From the quantitative answer, as Tom said, people seem very excited about
>> QGIS official videos... but... IMHO it's simply too hard to maintain. But
>> others mentioned an official Youtube channel.
>> People ask for more examples and better descriptions of functions and
>> parameters, especially about Processing algorithms. Like I said before,
>> people want more How to's... again, something quite hard to maintain for
>> each version. But people do search for it.
>> Another common request: make the docs up-to-date with the software.
>>
>> This being said, I would love to know if the PSC came to some conclusion.
>>
>> As a documentation person myself, I naturally have to disagree with the
>> idea that the project should aim (or simply resign) to a shrunk version of
>> the documentation and let the outside world provide the fancy answers to
>> the users. I don't believe PostgreSQL and PostGIS would have gotten far if
>> they followed the same principle. Their documentation is complete and
>> professional. IMHO, Good, precise, and updated documentation leads to more
>> adoption and better user experience.
>> An interesting fact: in two weeks open to answers (half the time other
>> surveys were "on air"), this questionnaire gathered more than 800
>> responses! To me, this alone says a bit about the importance that
>> documentation has for our users.
>>
>>
>> Our main discussion points in the PSC meeting were:
>>
>> 1) Current documentation approach is unsustainable (a few hard core
>> enthusiasts but not enough to cope with the rapid pace of development)
>> 2) Inviting contributors needs to be substantially easier - I’m talking
>> at the level of editing a google doc or word doc here. At the very least a
>> GitHub markdown page that is instantly published as soon as you edit it.
>> 3) Cameron has had a chat with me about employing technical writers to
>> make the documents more cohesive - I think this is a good initiative but
>> Cameron I think we need to get the fundamental issue of the editing
>> platform sorted out first
>> 4) Translations severely hamper our ability to switch to a more agile
>> system (e.g. GitHub markdown based wiki or Google doc) - in the PSC call we
>> want to surface the idea of doing away with translations and leave
>> translation initiatives to outside communities (e.g. local user groups).
>> PostgreSQL etc dont have the overhead of this.
>> 5) Our documentation could be easier if the format was more structured -
>> think something like editing a changelog entry here. Again we looked at the
>> PostGIS / PostgreSQL examples here which have a very standardised format.
>>
>> There were some sentiments in the PSC call to drop the documentation
>> effort completely and leave it to all the various community members to deal
>> with, but I think maybe my 1-5 points above make a better compromise of
>> reduced overhead, more accessible platform for writing while still having
>> docs in English at least.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Alex Neto
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 15, 2019 at 4:14 PM Tom Chadwin <tom.chadwin at nnpa.org.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello all
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here are my initial interpretations. I’d be interested to see whether
>>> you agree or disagree:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Questions 1-4 (quantitative)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - 70%’s first-choice is Googling/StackExchange, which dwarfs the <20%
>>> choosing official docs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - the fact that Googling came top of search methods emphasizes that we
>>> need to pay attention to SEO in the official docs
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - fewer than 50% find their answers in the official docs “often” or
>>> “always”, 45% answering “sometimes”
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - official docs are underused – over 50% only consult monthly or less
>>> frequently (including “never”)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Question 5 (qualitative)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - many find the official docs too abstract, and would prefer examples
>>> worked in
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - perhaps unsurprisingly, there is a lot of enthusiasm for video
>>> tutorials
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> - there is some criticism of the confusion of QGIS versions in the
>>> documentation, especially when deep-linked from a Google result
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Does anything else leap out at you?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Tom
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Anita Graser [mailto:anitagraser at gmx.at]
>>> *Sent:* 13 October 2019 13:22
>>> *To:* qgis-community; DelazJ; Tom Chadwin
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Qgis-community-team] [Qgis-user] [Qgis-psc] User
>>> question of the month
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After running this questionnaire for two weeks, we stand at 824
>>> responses and it's time to look at the responses.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Here's the timeline of incoming responses:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/bpbpobi8ym5fyew/user_survey_documentation_responses.PNG?dl=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And here are the answers to the questions:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/v8tknpjmuu9c5e7/user_survey_documentation_q1.PNG?dl=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/cb5o632p2vdut38/user_survey_documentation_q2.PNG?dl=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rfmzijavnp9ptyj/user_survey_documentation_q3.PNG?dl=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/v5lpcbl6q6ta19i/user_survey_documentation_q4.PNG?dl=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0hs50x83vls728p/user_survey_documentation_q5.PNG?dl=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Finally, here's the CSV export of all answers, including the free text
>>> field:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/nf7sdzyv4x2jsx0/QGIS%20Question%20of%20the%20Month%20%282019-09%29%20-%20all%20versions%20-%20English%20%28en%29%20-%202019-10-13-12-05-26.csv?dl=0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Usually, we publish the results in a follow-up blog post.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> @Tom and Harrissou: May I ask you to write an interpretation of the
>>> results (including the free text answers) ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Anita
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 5:34 PM Anita Graser <anitagraser at gmx.at> wrote:
>>>
>>> Looks like the question hits a nerve, there are already over 90 answers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 12:38 PM Anita Graser <anitagraser at gmx.at>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On request, I've added the option "QGIS Training Manual" to the first
>>> question. If you want to provide an updated translation for this item,
>>> please let me know when you've added it and I'll publish the change.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Anita
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Sep 28, 2019 at 9:53 AM Anita Graser <anitagraser at gmx.at> wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's the published form:
>>> https://ee.kobotoolbox.org/single/::6Uro4EIq?returnUrl=https://qgis.org
>>>
>>> Please give it a try and feel free to forward it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Later today, I'll write the blog post and publish it on Twitter as well.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Anita
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2019 at 4:03 PM Anita Graser <anitagraser at gmx.at> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'll publish this weekend. We can let it run through October
>>>
>>> http://anitagraser.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2019, 13:27 Ismail Sunni <imajimatika at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Anita,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am curious, when will the User Question of the Month be published in
>>> September? I just realized it's already the last week of September.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 12:29 PM r.m.aguilardearchila at utwente.nl <
>>> r.m.aguilardearchila at utwente.nl> wrote:
>>>
>>> Done for Spanish.
>>>
>>> Gr,
>>>
>>> Rosa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Qgis-community-team <qgis-community-team-bounces at lists.osgeo.org>
>>> *On Behalf Of *Alexandre Neto
>>> *Sent:* 12 September 2019 12:11
>>> *To:* Anita Graser <anitagraser at gmx.at>
>>> *Cc:* qgis-community <qgis-community-team at lists.osgeo.org>; Tom Chadwin
>>> <tom.chadwin at nnpa.org.uk>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Qgis-community-team] [Qgis-user] [Qgis-psc] User
>>> question of the month
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It's done for Portuguese
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for putting it together,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alex
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Sep 12, 2019 at 8:29 AM Anita Graser <anitagraser at gmx.at> wrote:
>>>
>>> Everyone who sent me their user name should now have an invitation to
>>> edit. Alex already successfully added the Ukrainian translation. Please add
>>> yours.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Anita
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 11, 2019 at 3:22 PM Anita Graser <anitagraser at gmx.at> wrote:
>>>
>>> Please create an account at https://kf.kobotoolbox.org  and send me
>>> your user name so I can give you editing rights.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Anita
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 10, 2019 at 11:53 PM Alexandre Neto <senhor.neto at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This is a very long thread, can you please re-share the link for
>>> translations?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> A terça, 10/09/2019, 21:31, Ismail Sunni <imajimatika at gmail.com>
>>> escreveu:
>>>
>>> Hi Anita,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am interested to translate it to Bahasa Indonesia.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hopefully, there will be more people answering the user question of the
>>> month, especially from Indonesia.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 10, 2019, 19:35 Anita Graser <anitagraser at gmx.at> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is a call for translators!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I've set up the questionnaire with Harrissou's questions on Kobotoolbox.
>>> If you want to localize the questions, let me know and I'll give you
>>> editing rights.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The questionnaire will be published on Sunday.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Anita
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 3, 2019 at 11:58 AM DelazJ <delazj at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Anita,
>>>
>>> Based on the earlier discussion, this is what I end up with (I rearrange
>>> the questions):
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. What is your first source of information on how to use QGIS features
>>> or solve problems?
>>> - QGIS User Manual, Stack Exchange, QGIS mailing lists, a regional forum,
>>> search engine, social network, other
>>>
>>> 2. On average, how often do you try to find information on QGIS features
>>> or solve problems?
>>> - daily, 2-3 times per week, once per week, 2-3 times per month, monthly,
>>> less often, never
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 3. If/when you use the official QGIS documentation to learn how to use
>>> QGIS features or solve problems, does it answer your
>>> needs?
>>> -always, often, sometimes, rarely, never, I don't use the official
>>> documentation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 4. On average, how often do you use the official QGIS documentation to
>>> find information on QGIS features or solve problems?
>>> - daily, 2-3 times per week, once per week, 2-3 times per month, monthly,
>>> less often, never
>>>
>>> *(selecting "I don't use the official documentation" in question 3 would
>>> hide this question)*
>>>
>>> 5. Suggestions for improvements or other comments on the official QGIS
>>> documentation:
>>> - textarea
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Harrissou
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Le jeu. 29 août 2019 à 13:55, Anita Graser <anitagraser at gmx.at> a
>>> écrit :
>>>
>>> Since this topic has come up again on a different thread (and we should
>>> soon have a better way to distribute links to our questionnaires) I'd like
>>> to encourage you to send me the questions you'd like to run.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Anita
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 8:54 PM Anita Graser <anitagraser at gmx.at> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Tom and Harrissou,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 12:05 PM Tom Chadwin <tom.chadwin at nnpa.org.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Better, I think, repeating that change across to the other questions
>>> using
>>> the same phrase.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you finalize the questions, we could run them this month.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Anita
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Ismail Sunni
>>>
>>> Software Engineer
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Qgis-community-team mailing list for organizing community resources such
>> as documentation, translation etc..
>> Qgis-community-team at lists.osgeo.org
>> https://lists.osgeo.org/mailman/listinfo/qgis-community-team
>>
>>
>> —
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Tim Sutton*
>>
>> *Co-founder:* Kartoza
>> *Ex Project chair:* QGIS.org
>>
>> Visit http://kartoza.com to find out about open source:
>>
>> Desktop GIS programming services
>> Geospatial web development
>> GIS Training
>> Consulting Services
>>
>> *Skype*: timlinux
>> *IRC:* timlinux on #qgis at freenode.net
>>
>> I'd love to connect. Here's my calendar link
>> <https://calendly.com/timlinux> to make finding time easy.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
> Qgis-community-team mailing list for organizing community resources such
> as documentation, translation etc..
> Qgis-community-team at lists.osgeo.org
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